Issues with Coil: Statics v. The Rest of Us

[Haruka-Akemi]

Coil in df is a good way for new players to get used to the first 2 turns
Maybe people is against dutyfinder and maybe hate it
But if duty finder worked for me to learn titan i bet some
People will learn something from a run or two
Of course it will be epic fails and wipes but that is just part of the game
If u dont like losing or wiping go play something else

And the loot i dont give a flying duck about loot lol
If i get stuff cool if i dont is cool too

[Ronzeru]

Greedy. Casual players are getting an entire raid for them to do in DF next month. Crystal Tower. Thats for you. Shoo. Leave our Coil alone. Go on now. Shoo.

[GilbertLapine]

Greedy. Casual players are getting an entire raid for them to do in DF next month. Crystal Tower. Thats for you. Shoo. Leave our Coil alone. Go on now. Shoo.

/facepalm

Your response gives me the impression you neither read the OP, nor understand what this thread is about.

[Ranzan]

Then how will ppl get experience with coils if the ONLY way is to have a group. People dont want it in DF but they expect people to have experience with it before hand. Hmmm sounds like some people are in a rock and a hard place unless watching videos counts as experience(not). Yea Endgame was not designed well.

[Nihility]

is this actually a problem?
On behemoth I see people making coil groups for 1-4 all the time and often successfully

It's not really all that inaccessible either. My group had a few people in AK green gear doing it just fine, just because pugs think you need full relic gear for wanderer's palace doesn't mean over-gearing is necessary

If they don't put in anything that needs high levels of teamwork the hardcore crowd will ditch in a big hurry and they are really the backbone of mmo communities. Much like how the pro-tournies are what keep LoL so popular, online games need an upper echelon to aspire towards

[GilbertLapine]

is this actually a problem?
On behemoth I see people making coil groups for 1-4 all the time and often successfully

It's not really all that inaccessible either. My group had a few people in AK green gear doing it just fine, just because pugs think you need full relic gear for wanderer's palace doesn't mean over-gearing is necessary

If they don't put in anything that needs high levels of teamwork the hardcore crowd will ditch in a big hurry and they are really the backbone of mmo communities. Much like how the pro-tournies are what keep LoL so popular, online games need an upper echelon to aspire towards

Well, the most teamwork-heavy turn I've played thus far is T2 with the allagan rot handoffs. T1 and T4 mostly boil down to tanks handling positioning while everyone else turrets their heals or DPS.

As far as the accessibility though, it's not a gear issue and that isn't what this thread is about. The problem is that making Coil lock players for participation, instead of loot, drives rifts into friendships and FCs, and crowds out many players who aren't interested in joining an FC of unknowns just to get a Coil static.

I think it's great for the dungeon to require teamwork, and indeed I'd love to see more team-play-oriented game mechanics, but forcing players to go in the same party, with the same people, at the same time each week does not qualify as 'teamwork' in the scope of a video game. I think if people want to do that and feel is brings value to their game time they should have every right to, but people should be able to enjoy the game at their leisure, not at the mercy of their FC.

[SolidSok]

I'm not sure if this point was addressed in this post yet. I'm assuming it wasn't as I did not see it edited into the first post, but in regards to a loot lockout, how would the loot distribution be fair for the ones who have already cleared Coil compared to the new person(s) going in?

To clarify: Let's say A small Free Company consisting of 11 people do Coil and clear Turns 1-5. The initial 8 people have had a chance at 8 different pieces of equipment from the entirety of that week's Coil run. Those 8 pieces would be distributed among the 8 members.
Now let's say 2 of the extra members want to do Coil as well. 6 of the members from the previous group help out and they clear turns 1-5. The loot distribution is different here. 6 members have been locked out of loot meaning those 8 pieces are going to be distributed among the new 2 members.
Then if the last person wants to do Coil, they gain access to 8 pieces of equipment by default (assuming only the FC helps them).

With this in mind, there is motivation to not be in the first group to go to Coil. After all, Why would one choose to lower the chances of getting so much excellent equipment?

Now this would be a dirty tactic, and probably wouldn't fly too well in the FC, and this is assuming that the members are strictly within the FC, but still I'm not sure how a loot lockout system could address this fairly.

Sorry if this point has already been addressed. There are just so many pages already in here xD

[GilbertLapine]

I'm not sure if this point was addressed in this post yet. I'm assuming it wasn't as I did not see it edited into the first post, but in regards to a loot lockout, how would the loot distribution be fair for the ones who have already cleared Coil compared to the new person(s) going in?
To clarify: Let's say A small Free Company consisting of 11 people do Coil and clear Turns 1-5. The initial 8 people have had a chance at 8 different pieces of equipment from the entirety of that week's Coil run. Those 8 pieces would be distributed among the 8 members.
Now let's say 2 of the extra members want to do Coil as well. 6 of the members from the previous group help out and they clear turns 1-5. The loot distribution is different here. 6 members have been locked out of loot meaning those 8 pieces are going to be distributed among the new 2 members.
Then if the last person wants to do Coil, they gain access to 8 pieces of equipment by default (assuming only the FC helps them).

With this in mind, there is motivation to not be in the first group to go to Coil. After all, Why would one choose to lower the chances of getting so much excellent equipment?

Now this would be a dirty tactic, and probably wouldn't fly too well in the FC, and this is assuming that the members are strictly within the FC, but still I'm not sure how a loot lockout system could address this fairly.

Sorry if this point has already been addressed. There are just so many pages already in here xD

That's something the FC would have to address internally. I doubt it would be an issue in the long run as no one in your hypothetical would want to be in group 1 and everyone would want to be in group 2. Not putting too much thought into it, I'd say the best bet would be to rotate members through depending on who happened to be available that week, and supplement either one or both groups with outside players from friendly FCs and linkshells, the player search that will soon be implemented(?), or duty finder if it were available.

If they were only willing to run with others within their FC, and assuming all FC members were on-board with running the instance a second time for nothing but tomestones, they would just need to rotate players in and out of each group depending on availability and who was in which group the previous week or weeks.

[GilbertLapine]

Great thread from a like-minded individual. Check it out if you agree:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ds%29%21%21%21

[Fire-Dragon-DoL]

Great thread from a like-minded individual. Check it out if you agree:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ds%29%21%21%21

Great thread from YOU!!! At least now I know I'm not alone!!!
I didn't read all 21 pages (that's too much for me, lol), but anyway I want to discuss some important points I've read on the first page here (and on my topic there):

Selling Coil kills
First, people buy to destroy their gameplay? Really, who cares. I don't mind people geared as me if they paid, I'll see the difference once in dungeon and with votekick I'll just kick him out. I always notice when someone is lagging or has bought is account, it's easy to spot, they do no dps/healing/dies everywhere.
If you care about pixels, which will be useless the exact moment expansion come out, well it's your problem.

Duty finder
We have already a clear example of this: Titan.
People who cleared it on Duty finder are considered EXTREMELY LUCKY. Still, this starts almost instantly because IT'S THE BEST PLACE TO PRACTICE.
It's easy to claim a dungeon as HARD if you give people opportunity to run it once a week, they can't do practice. It's like you want to be a professional soccer player but you can't train for more than once a week.

Loot lockout
Really, if your character (not your class, the entire character) is loot locked out after defeating the boss, is pretty straightforward, you can't get more loot. For Coil kill selling, well there is the previous section.

Anti-social aspect of the game
With the current situation, we have an MMO with the most anti-social aspect of all time. After you defeat Titan, the only thing you can do with a party is DOING WP/AK, oh crap. I've run WP/AK and even if I think AK bosses are nice to fight (but trashes are A DISASTER, they must be more challenging, they are really boring), after running it more than 200 times (same for WP), I can't see it anymore. Really, seeing this dungeon kills me, it's just there for the freaking marks and thanks to coil I can get 100 from it.
What's remaining? Crafting: alone, Gathering: alone, Leveling up classes? Alone because fate grinding is done without brain, usually people watch a tv series while leveling through fates, same for gathering.
Titan? Yes that's still fun, but I've run it already as a healer and as a dps, over 100 times I think. Yea I still like it and I go there to help people, still, if that's the only thing I can do with my friends, it will get insanely boring in one week.

And that's all, there aren't any fun things to do with others, if you make coil available, I can have fun with my friends again (5 "new dungeon" to run with my friends?!?! That's FANTASTIC)