Flayer: Beastmaster and Blue Mage Proposal

[MartaDemireux]

Made substantial changes to the OP.

FLA:
Changed from rookie BST to rookie BLU
Can learn 1 Blue Magic for each monster tpe
Removed tame/learn ability
Raised overal DPS and gave them a mechanic for double attacks to compensate for a weaker pet than envisioned on BST
Changed combos

BLU:
Clarified Blue Magic is still the go-to for DPS
With increased FLA DPS, BLU MP costs can be raised to create a system where they burn through their MP to DPS with Blue Magic to then use TP attacks while MP refreshes similar to how a THM/BLM works.

BST:
Only get 6 pets now each with their own specialty in battle (one for each monster type) that they obtain through quests
Increased overall DPS
Added combos to keep them busy

Still working on some lore but with the recent changes they will be starting in Limsa Lominsa.

[Kitru]

BST:
Only get 6 pets now each with their own specialty in battle (one for each monster type) that they obtain through quests

The job abilities would have to *be* the pet summons and there would be all kinds of crap associated with having a class that goes from dealing all of its own damage, roughly equal to the other DPS classes, suddenly shifting a majority of its performance onto a pet. SMN and SCH are explicitly *designed* around having a pet to provide a healthy portion of their total damage: Ruin has a laughable potency of only 80 and that ends up being what a SMN spends most of its GCDs casting, since it's not like they have much reason to reapply their DoTs before they come up. The "loss" of the 6 attacks is completely negligible to the damage dealt, given the fact that they're not the foundation of the class; you're just having them lose a few mediocre utility powers. Plus, you're telling one job that it only gets 11 abilities, which is just handicapping the playstyle.

The only way you're going to get a class that "trades up" from a non-pet class to a pet class is if the *entire* previous DPS structure is revisited and rebalanced around the pet doing said damage: all of those attacks would need a separate potency for FLA/BLU and BST. The opposite is true in the same way: if you're getting rid of your pet, you better be getting some big buffs to make up for it.

You've still got all of the problems with your Blue Mage suffering from stat schizophrenia. You're claiming that they would be using magical and physical attacks, but they're only going to have the stats for one or the other (likely physical since, you know, it's a DoW class). It doesn't help that you're trying to blend in PIE and MND as well. Mechanically, you should just stick with a single stat. If you *really* want to have alternating Blue Magic and physical damage phases, just use an explicit mechanic that enforces it rather than trying to bend reality to accommodate stat schizophrenia: just have a stance called "Blue Magic" or something that swaps your STR for INT. Of course, you'd need to have some kind of mp regeneration mechanism for the physical side of things since you don't really regen mp that quickly without something external.

[MartaDemireux]

.

Well not entirely true on the BST part. In losing the 6 attack abilities they're in turn getting 3-4 more per pet that they can micromanage. I think that evens it out. The reason I have the pets toggling with the Blue Magic is because I don't want the BST to have access to it. I still want the BST to be able to use those abilities to in turn call out their pets when needed. The BST is able to call out a different pet relatively quickly as the situation demands with the way I have it (1 second as opposed to an ACN/SMN/SCH's 6 seconds). For instance you could start the fight using a Funguar for their AoE Poison and then switch it out immediately after to a Raptor for the conal breath attacks. Maybe I should put in the OP their known abilities thus far for clarification. I also wanted to make sure that no skill went unused like was brought to my attention with Tame before.

With BST's job abilities I wanted to make sure they could still hold their own in battle while boosting their pets as needed. With such negative feedback on FLA damage potential I increased weaponskill damage but perhaps I went too high. I tried to base it on a GLA's damage so they'd still be weak in comparison to current DPS classes unless the BST had it's pet or the BLU had their extra magic.

I do really like the stance idea. I wanted to have the traits be that way as sort of a throwback to XI's traits being built by the spells the BLU set. But honestly wasn't thinking much on the gear stats. I did intend for them to be on a melee armor so I can see the issues in gimping themselves. I'll change Azure Lore to a stat swapper.

I haven't added in potencies yet for the Blue Magic but I'm intending (like I put in the OP) for them to be stronger than the weaponskills, including the spells available to FLA. But as I said I think I must have gone a little bit too high on the FLA WS damage potential so I will lower it a bit so that way BST can shine better with their WS's and pet swapping and BLU can shine better with their magic.

I actually was thinking on a way to give an MP refresh to weaponskills but I got distracted. I went over to change up my DRK idea to include a stance mechanic (had been thinking on that since you tore into me about it being too similar to GLA :P) and then saw your BRS being from PGL on the last page and got inspired to alter mine. I'll go back to thinking on a refresh mechanic now though...

Edit: Have edited the traits Learning and Unbridled Learning. In addition to what its old function they now make weaponskills replenish the BLU's MP equal to half the TP cost and equal to the TP cost respectively. Since they had no use for BST I made them also function to give a 5% and 10% chance respectively to increase your pets damage by 10% for 8s when you land a critical hit.

[MartaDemireux]

Changes to OP:

Added in Blue Magic spell potencies and MP costs. These are tentative and based on the BLU having around 2.5k-2.7k mp. I judged the potency and cost of single target physical spells on MNK/DRG weaponskills, AoE's on BRD weaponskills and single target magic attacks on WHM nukes (for a ratio, increased potency in relation). This way they should be relatively balanced.

As incentive to not spam one or two attacks I've added in a new Blue Magic combo system and Azure Soul mechanic. When they use "-kin Soul" abilities in combos they gain stacks of Azure Soul. Each stack of Azure Soul raises their critical hit rate by 2% and will renew its duration until it reaches its cap at 5 stacks when the duration will be locked and will count down to 0. The job-specific abilities Spoken Soul, Voidsent Soul and Spoken Soul II each consume Azure Soul stacks since they are quite a bit stronger. The other option was to add in longer recast times on all attacks but that seemed like it would be less fun to play than this mechanic. So now while you can indeed spam one attack, you'll benefit more from not doing so.

Also owered the potency on Flayer weaponskills since their primary use is to facilitate BLU MP refresh and to open BST's stronger combo's that enhance their pet. I also added in my general concepts of each job and the class. Lore still on the way, haven't had much time to think up scenarios other than being from LL.

[Sakamoto-San]

Very interesting I hope they add BLU to this game, I will literally live on that job 23/7 and SCH 1/7(maybe) lol. I can see it being done even more than before. It's very possible especially since Yoshi has expressed interest in adding it in. *droooool*

[MartaDemireux]

Very interesting I hope they add BLU to this game, I will literally live on that job 23/7 and SCH 1/7(maybe) lol. I can see it being done even more than before. It's very possible especially since Yoshi has expressed interest in adding it in. *droooool*

Oh he has? Do you have a link to where he said it, would love to read it. I'm happy you find my idea interesting; I know it's very out of the box haha. I've enjoyed playing BLU in every installment it's appeared in and would love to see it here. Maybe not exactly in my own way because I loved white wind in the past but I built mine around what is currently available.

[Duelle]

I got bored while waiting for maintenance, so here's a flayer and beastmaster concept I put together.

Flayer

Concept: DPS that relies on continuous attacks to deal damage.

Weapons: Bullwhip. Chain whip.

Abilities
01 Swipe - Delivers an attack with a potency of 120.
02 Snap - Delivers an attack with a potency of 100. Combo => Swipe: 150 potency.
04 Nourish - Regenerate 8% of your max HP over 12 seconds.
06 Crack - Reduces damage dealt to you by target by 10% for 10 seconds. 60 second cooldown.
08 Flog - Delivers an attack with a potency of 80. 160 when delivered from behind target.
10 Brandish - Delivers an attack with a potency of 100 to all enemies within 3 yalms.
12 Takedown - Stuns target for 3 seconds. 40 second cooldown.
15 Boomerang - Delivers an attack with a potency of 130. 15 yalm range.
18 Lacerate - Delivers an attack with a potency of 80. Combo => Flog: Increases damage target receives from your attacks by 10% for 20 seconds.
22 Wide Sweeps - Your single-target attacks deal 50% of their damage but strike two additional targets. 12 second duration. 1 minute cooldown.
26 Sidewinder - Delivers an attack with a potency of 100. Combo => Snap: 250 potency.
30 Lariat - Channeled ability. Completely immobilize target for 6 seconds. Effect ends if you move or perform any actions. 45 second cooldown.
34 Redirect - Reduces damage taken by 10% for 15 seconds. 2 minute cooldown.
38 Nine tails - Delivers an attack with a potency of 100 in a cone before you. Combo => Flog: 150 potency.
42 Barbed Flail - Delivers an attack with a potency of 100. Places a damage over time effect with a potency of 30 for 21 seconds.
46 Recklessness - Increases damage dealt by 20% for 20 seconds. Reduces attack speed by 15% for 5 seconds after effect fades. 90 second cooldown.
50 Punisher - Delivers an attack with a potency of 100. Combo => Lacerate: 180 potency. Doubles the potency of your next Swipe or Flog.

Traits
08 Enhanced Strength (Flayer)
14 Enhanced Nourish - Nourish now regenerates 12% of your max HP over 15 seconds.
16 Enhanced Vitality (Flayer)
20 Momentum - Increases your attack speed by 4%.
24 Enhanced Vitality II (Flayer)
28 Enhanced Takedown - Reduces the cooldown of Takedown to 20 seconds.
32 Deep Lacerations - Lacerate now increases damage target receives from your attacks by 15%.
36 Enhanced Crack - Reduces the cooldown of Crack to 40 seconds.
40 Momentum II - Increases your attack speed by an additional 4%.
44 Constrictor - Lariat deals damage over time (20 potency) for every second it is active on target.
48 Enhanced Redirect - Redirect now reduces damage taken by 15%.

Achievements
Whip it good! I-V - Achieve flayer level 10-50

Notes:
- As always, potencies, durations and cooldowns are negotiable.
- Flayer is a melee DPS that has slightly better options for AoE compared to a PGL or LNC. Granted I have a feeling Wide Sweeps, Brandish and Nine Tails are in need of a boost.
- Lariat is a channeled CC. The player can't do anything while keeping the target in place, as it would break the channel and prematurely end the effect. I was also thinking of having bosses be held in place by Lariat but being able to auto attack and cast spells.
- Nourish, Crack and Redirect are self-preservation tools, as they are nowhere near as potent as what a tank would have available to them. At most it would allow a healer to get to them but may also help in AoE situations (Nourish and Redirect). Crack is inspired by Demoralizing Shout but single target.
- Momentum is key to use of the whip, and while an alternative to the two traits that I have suggested would be to implement Momentum as a system similar to greased lightning, it might have complicated things too much. By this token, Recklessness works the way it does because I feel the damage increase for flayer should have some sort of downside. Conceptwise the flayer would need to slow down to regain control of their whip (I originally wanted to have the flayer damage themselves a bit per attack while Recklessness was up).

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Beastmaster

Concept: Tank that establishes bonds with beasts, sharing damage and boons with their companion.

Mechanics: Equipping the BST crystal adds the "Increased Enmity" effect to Snap, Sidewinder, and Brandish. Flog's baseline potency is increased to 110 and no longer needs to be used behind the target to combo to Lacerate or Nine Tails (you still need to be behind the target for it to have 160 potency).

The core mechanic of BST is "Lifelink", a buff the splits damage the BST takes with their pet that is active whenever the BST and their pet are within 5 yalms of each other. While Lifelink is active, the BST deals 30% less damage but gains an enmity boost. The damage split would be 80-20 between master and pet. AoE moves and damage auras ignore the pet. Lifelink also heals the pet for 20% of the heal received by the master when Lifelink is active. Buffs like Protect and Stoneskin will affect the pet when used on the master and vice versa.

Pets: BST can have up to five pets bonded to them, allowing the BST to summon one beast as a pet using Call Beast. Upon unlocking the job, BST can Tame and bond to one beast (can be beastkin, cloudkin, scalekin, wavekin and vilekin), and more pet slots will unlock as the BST completes job quests. Upon being successfully tamed, pet level becomes normalized to match the master's level. Unlike SMN pets or companion chocobo, BST pets can only auto attack and must be ordered to perform specific moves though Tenacity/Savagery/Cunning.

Suggested pets

Beastkin
Adamantoise
Boar
Coeurl
Mole
Wolf

Cloudkin
Apkallu
Bat
Cockatrice
Dodo
Vulture

Scalekin
Croc
Dragonfly
Drake
Raptor
Serpent

Vilekin
Beetle
Diremite
Giant Hornet
Mantis
Yarzon

Wavekin
Crab
Jellyfish
Orobon
Pugil
Uragnite

Support Classes: GLA (Convalescence, Savage Blade, Provoke), PGL (Featherfoot, Second Wind, Haymaker)

Abilities
30 Tame - Bond target beast to you
30 Release - Sever your bond with currently active pet, releasing them back to the wild
30 Call Beast - Summon beast bound to you
30 Sic (BST) - Orders pet to attack target.
35 Tenacity - Orders pet to perform a defensive move. 30 second cooldown.
40 Savagery - Orders pet to perform an offensive move. 30 second cooldown.
45 Cunning - Orders pet to perform a support move. 30 second cooldown.
50 Call of the Wild - Summon all beasts bonded to you to attack the target. The additional pets deal 25% of their normal damage and can only auto-attack. Damage taken by you is split between you and the five pets for the duration. 15 second duration. 5 minute cooldown.

(Suggested) Quests
30 Embracing the wild
35 In the footsteps of...
40 When nature calls
45 Old trophies
50 In the Veldt, the mighty Veldt
50 A Relic Reborn: Vampire KillerDragon Whisker

Achievements
...and your not-so-little pet too! - Complete the beastmaster job quest "In the Veldt, the mighty Veldt".
Get out your relic whip - Acquire a dragon whisker in the quest A Relic Reborn.

Notes:
- The idea behind BST pets is that each pet type has three abilities corresponding to the Tenacity, Savagery and Cunning commands.
- While BST by themselves have a bit of enmity, I would make sure it isn't enough to solo tank stuff unless the pet is also present (hence why Lifelink increases enmity generated)
- Mitigation is a bit trickier, since the damage taken by the BST is split between master and pet. Self-cast cooldowns like Nourish and Redirect affect both.
- Because BST is a tank and their main mechanic is Lifelink, pathing for BST pets should aim to place them right next to the BST.
- To give an idea of how pet abilities work, for example a Wolf type pet may have Stalwartness (reduces damage taken by master and pet), Wild Fang (Single-target attack with high crit chance) and Furious Howl (increases damage dealt).
- In contrast, a Coeurl type pet may have Feline Reflexes (increased dodge), Scratch Fury (single target attack that places a DoT), and Charged Whisker (AoE paralyze).
- A Boar-type pet may have Unstoppable Force (Removes weight and bind effects from master and pet), Goring Tusk (front-cone attack), and Bellowing Grunt (AoE stun).
- An alternative that I'm sure some of you will hate would be pet abilities being standard per family. As in, all beastkin have the same abilities, all wavekin have the same abilities and so on. Depends on whether the devs would want to take the time to assign moves to all monster types that can be tamed by BST or whether it would be more time and cost-effective to simplify pet movesets.
- Of course, we also have the issue of illusion of choice, which pet classes like BST are subject to. Someone may get mad if the ideal pet for endgame was a Boar but they wanted to use a Coeurl or a Tortoise, for example.
- As a third option, BST pets could be tied to the storyline, meaning the BST would get five predetermined pets through the job quests and simply not have the option to tame mobs, but that I feel would go against the theme of the job.
- Call of the Wild is a mini-DPS cooldown that happens to provide major mitigation for the BST.
- In theory, between Lifelink's damage reduction, Redirect, Crack, Nourish, Convalescence and Second Wind BST should not be lacking for mitigation or recovery tools. That's not even counting Tenacity abilities from pets. With that in mind, I think Tenacity's cooldown could be increased to something like 2 minutes and ensure pet tenacity abilities justify the long cooldown.

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Blue Mage

Concept: DPS that uses abilities learned from monsters.

Mechanics: Equipping the BLU crystal places an HP penalty and increases max MP for the amount of HP lost. It also allows Lariat to restore 20% of your max MP when used and an additional 5% per additional second it is active on target.

BLU can learn spells using Azure Lash on a target. Upon use the ability has a chance to let the BLU learn a spell from the monster attacked. Learned attacks correspond to one of four receptacles. You can only learn moves corresponding to receptacles that are available to you.

30 Azure Lash - Delivers an attack with a potency of 80. Absorbs 30% of damage dealt as HP and MP. Allows the learning of monster abilities. 10 second cooldown.
30 Sapphire Recepticle - *Body Slam (Peiste, 10 second cooldown), Sanguine Bite (Wolf, 15 second cooldown), Sticky Tongue (Gigantoad, 30 second cooldown)
35 Aquamarine Recepticle - *Wing Cutter (Vulture, 20 second cooldown), Frost Breath (Raptor, 10 second cooldown), Acid Mist (Ochu, 10 second cooldown)
40 Lapiz Lazuli Recepticle - *Electric Velitation (Aevis, 5 second cooldown), Detonator (Bomb, 15 second cooldown), Dream Flower (Mandragora, 25 second cooldown)
45 Zircon Recepticle - *Malice (Ghost, 5 second cooldown), Jittering Jig (Spriggan, 2.5 second cooldown), Thunderstorm (Gnat, 10 second cooldown)
50 Magus Recepticle - *Grand Delta (Hidon, 90 second cooldown), Bad Breath (Morbol, 3 minute cooldown), Final Sting (Giant Bee, 2 minute cooldown)

Quests - *Warning: Fanfiction advisory is in effect* The BLU questline would involve Relm, a girl that is trying to continue the research on monster behavior started by her deceased grandfather. The quest would reveal that Relm's grandfather was a blue mage and the player character would inherit the knowledge Strago amassed before facing the beast that ended his life, Hidon.

30 Turning blue
35 For posterity
40 Remembering lore
45 Blue (mage)'s clues
50 Hidon seek
50 A Relic Reborn: Mystic Whip

Achievements
Blue Mage in Blue World - Complete the blue mage job quest "Hidon seek"
Whiplashing it, mystic style - Acquire a mystic whip in the quest A Relic Reborn

Notes
- The concept behind the recepticles is that they can store the essence of monsters. Each recepticle can store a certain number of monster essences, which the BLU can then draw upon to use monster skills.
- This said, I wanted to base BLU on the idea behind SaGa Frontier's Mystics; that is to say, a class that could absorb monsters and store their essence, allowing them access to certain monster attacks (Mystics could store up to three monsters through Mystic Sword, Mystic Glove and Mystic Boots, BLU would be able to store 5 through their recepticles). I went away from this idea because a BLU having only 5 spells seemed a bit odd.
- Blue Magic spells would appear as individual icons in the action bars. The recepticles themselves do not appear on the action bar, and instead are more for story purposes. Increases in the level cap could allow the BLU to gain extra abilities not-related to recepticles and perhaps increase the spell capacity of the recepticles gained in the lv30-50 quests.
- The spells marked with a star are already learned when the BLU gains that recepticle through the job quests. For example, the Zircon Recepticle is gained with Malice already learned (leaving the BLU to learn Jittering Jig and Thunderstorm).
- The way Blue Magic works is that spells bound to the same recepticle share the cooldown of the used spell. If a BLU uses Grand Delta, then all Magus Recepticle spells are placed on a 90 second cooldown. If that BLU instead uses Bad Breath, then all Magus Recepticle spells are placed on a 3 minute cooldown.
- Azure Lash and Lariat are key to restoring MP. I'm iffy on turning Lariat into an MP recovery tool, and am open to the posibility of moving that aspect to Barbed Flail. I did like the idea of the BLU somehow turning their whip into a leeching vine, wrapping it around the enemy using Lariat and using their whip to slowly draing MP form the enemy.
- I'm open to suggestions for blue magic spells if the ones I'm suggesting are not fitting.

[Kitru]

FlayerConcept: DPS that relies on continuous attacks to deal damage.

Since you made BST a tank job, one of the first problems you're going to have is the transition from the class into the job forcing a change in role. DPS>healer works for ACN>SCH because SMN is already there to preserve the role continuance. As such, since you probably have it in your mind to keep BST as a tank, it would probably work better to have Flayer be a tank as well (which also lets you beef up the painfully weak CD suite that you've given them; the 10% DR that Crack and Redirect provide are pretty much unnoticeable; Foresight provides just under a 10% reduction in physical damage taken).

Weapons: Bullwhip. Chain whip.

It might be easier if you just say "whip" and let the two types largely be determined by the relative aesthetic, similar to how the spears/glaives/etc that LNC uses are simply referred to as spears and varied simply based upon weapon name. If you're really looking for 2 separate weapon types, since a bull whip and a chain whip (as in a whip made of chains, as opposed to a literal chain used as a weapon) are) would be used in much the same way, you may want to look into using flails as the other type (since they're basically just chain whips with heavy objects on the end). It also gives the devs a bit more aesthetic working space, since there isn't much about a whip you can vary beyond the grip (the lash would have only minor options due to the limited size).

15 Boomerang - Delivers an attack with a potency of 130. 15 yalm range.

The crack of a whip is already a small sonic boom incurred by the tail and a boomerang just seems like you're pulling out a completely random weapon (it would be like a WAR/PLD reaching down and picking up a rock instead of chucking their axe/shield; the devs seem to want the melee to actually what they've got on hand, even if it's not entirely sensible). As such, a better option would be to rename it Sonic Boom or something of the kind where the Flayer cracks their whip and sends a sonic boom/wind slash at their opponent.

30 Lariat - Channeled ability. Completely immobilize target for 6 seconds. Effect ends if you move or perform any actions. 45 second cooldown.

I can see this being slightly problematic, not because of the effect but because it's a channeled ability that ends if you do anything else. If you use it and anything else from the server is queued up or are moving just a bit too much before you use it, the channel would end immediately. It would probably be needed to have the ability stun you for 1 second or so such that you're incapable of moving or using anything else while the ability activates/animates, allowing you to use other abilities.

Also, since you're grabbing a hold of them, it would probably work to have it drag the target closer since you *are* immobilizing them with a whip you've wrapped around them (which means that you're holding on to them).

46 Recklessness - Increases damage dealt by 20% for 20 seconds. Reduces attack speed by 15% for 5 seconds after effect fades. 90 second cooldown.

It's worse than Blood for Blood (which is 30% for 20 seconds every 80 seconds) while having a side effect that is a fair bit worse (since it decreases damage rather than survivability). The side effect is also something that's a bit wonky because short term reductions in attack speed get rather wonky depending upon how the game calculates relative attack speed, especially given that you're having the attack speed reduction be a fundamental part of the class.

I'm also not entirely sure that "Recklessness" really makes me think of reducing attack speed when it fades (or any kind of reduction in effectiveness when it *fades*; Recklessness makes me think of a negative effect while it's active). I see that as something more like "Adrenaline Rush", where you push yourself and then get tired when it fades.

28 Enhanced Takedown - Reduces the cooldown of Takedown to 25 seconds.

The standard for stun CDs is 20 seconds and it's a straight up plain-Jane stun without anything else. It would probably be better to reduce the CD down to the standard and give it something beyond the stun itself like all of the others do. Something that you may think about would be an extended range on it (such as 10y) to "make up" for the lack of damage.

44 Constrictor - Lariat deals damage over time (20 potency) for every second it is active on target.

Since you can't attack while it's active and it only lasts 6 seconds, 20 potency is basically nothing. If you really want a trait that causes Lariat to deal some damage, you could safely beef it up to 200 potency or more because, even that high, it's a mere 166.67 potency per GCD compared to the 300 you'd expect to be dealing.

[quote]- Flayer is a melee DPS that has slightly better options for AoE compared to a PGL or LNC. Granted I have a feeling Wide Sweeps, Brandish and Nine Tails are in need of a boost.[.quote]

Given the attack speed increases you've baked into the class, you're basically providing roughly 10% higher DPS than is listed anyways so I'd say that Brandish and Nine Tails are pretty safe.

I actually think that Wide Sweeps might actually be a bit OP since getting 2 extra targets with your ST attacks with 25% uptime is *incredibly* good, even with the reduction in damage dealt. AoEs are roughly half of the damage of ST attacks distributed across multiple targets and, most of the time, you're not fighting more than 3 targets or so (hence Bane still being useful). Since Wide Sweeps wouldn't impede ST damage at all, you're giving free high damage cleaves with no opportunity cost with a *very* high relative uptime. I would probably have it reduce your damage by 25-40% for the duration and have all of your single target attacks hit 2 additional targets for the duration such that it's an explicit AoE ability that can't be used for "free" AoE damage during ST rotations. Honestly, Wide Sweeps could very easily render the need for the other AoEs largely redundant.

Since you're providing increased attack speed, which increases the benefit of such effects since you can compress more attacks into the time frame, you may want to consider limiting it to a certain number of charges, such that your next 6 attacks or so cleave 2 additional targets to keep it under control.

- Lariat is a channeled CC. The player can't do anything while keeping the target in place, as it would break the channel and prematurely end the effect. I was also thinking of having bosses be held in place by Lariat but being able to auto attack and cast spells.

Being able to immobilize a boss would be borked as hell, even if they could still attack (since, you know, bind already lets them keep attacking), it would be broken as hell since you could invalidate any mechanic that involves the boss chasing someone down or moving elsewhere. It doesn't help that Holmgang already has a better case than this, given that it actually immobilizes the tank for the duration and is on a longer CD, and is still only capable of binding enemies that can actually be bound. Lariat should just be one of those interesting wonky utility abilities that a class gets that doesn't really have much universal applicability.

- Momentum is key to use of the whip, and while an alternative to the two traits that I have suggested would be to implement Momentum as a system similar to greased lightning, it might have complicated things too much.

I don't really see how implementing a system like Greased Lightning or Wrath would really complicate things too much. It makes a lot more sense as well since momentum is something that you build up, as opposed to a constant. I don't really see a problem with it as long as it's not just a Greased Lightning clone. You could even tweak some of the abilities to consume Momentum to provide the class itself with a fundamental bonus resource set up like WAR has (Wide Sweeps is a good contender; Lariat might also work).

Momentum, of course, isn't really something that I think of when I think of whips, mainly because whips aren't large weapons with a lot of inertia. Momentum tends to be more about large objects that move slowly and build up to high speeds after a while, not a weapon that, honestly, stops moving as soon as you make the attack.

Conceptwise the flayer would need to slow down to regain control of their whip (I originally wanted to have the flayer damage themselves a bit per attack while Recklessness was up).

Regaining control of a whip isn't really hard since it's not particularly heavy and, as such, doesn't really have much in the way of inertia to get in the way so that it stops moving relatively quickly and in a pretty docile manner. Whips and flails take some learning to use because they're liable to hit you while you wind up for the attack if you don't know what you're doing; they move weird *while* you're swinging, not beforehand.

As such, I'm not entirely sure that "Momentum" is the correct term to use. Since whips have the whole "sonic boom" thing going for them and the whole "fluid weapon" thing, it might be better to have it be some kind of wind aura you build around you to speed yourself up; Whipping Winds would be a decent name.

The core mechanic of BST is "Lifelink", a buff the splits damage the BST takes with their pet that is active whenever the BST and their pet are within 5 yalms of each other. While Lifelink is active, the BST deals 20% less damage but gains an enmity boost. The damage split would be 65-35 between master and pet. AoE moves and damage auras ignore the pet. Lifelink also heals the pet for 80% of the heal received by the paster when Lifelink is active. Buffs like Protect and Stoneskin will affect the pet when used on the master and vice versa.

Your numbers are highly problematic for mean mitigation, AoE damage, *and* eHP. With a 65/35 split, you're providing the BST with 54% increase to eHP (since they're only taking 65% of the damage) which is double what the other tanks get. Furthermore, you're providing a massive increase to mean mitigation on top of that since you're giving the pet 80% of your healing, which means that the BST would only need to be healed for (.65 + .2 * .35) 72% of the total damage.

For balance sake, the damage transfer needs to be restricted to 80% to prevent massive eHP bloat and match the current tanks. Mean mitigation would be fixed by having the pet get healed for 25% of whatever healed you (which equates to a 25% increase in healing) though that's basically duplicating the effects of Shield Oath while using the same fundamental mechanisms as Defiance (you pet healing for a part of whatever healed you is basically +healing and the damage transfer to a secondary source is basically +hp) though it has the advantage of being painted over a few times. Also, immunity to auras and AoE attacks isn't enough. To keep things balanced, the pet needs to be unaffected by *any* multitarget effect at all, including heals since the pet getting healed by the AoE means that the BST benefits twice. As such, it's probably better go say that the pet is only affected by effects specifically targeting it: no AoEs, no cleaves, nothing.

Also, unless you plan on the transfer unaffected by anything else temporary effects, you shouldn't have the surv CDs affect both of them since that would be another case of double dipping.

Keep in mind that, because you're not giving the pet high enmity anything, the pet isn't really going to be a target for anything. The only threat to it is specific targeting (which is a pure PvP consideration and probably balanced because they'd be specifically choosing to nuke something you could just resummon).

This does bring up the question of what the -dam should be and how much damage the pet deals. The damage reduction should be large enough to account for the DPS increase derived from the pet. I'm not sure what the pot/GCD for the pet auto-attacks is, but, assuming it's ~50, that's ~13% of total damage for your character.

- The idea behind BST pets is that each pet type has three abilities corresponding to the Tenacity, Savagery and Cunning commands.

Someone was looking at WoW hunters when they were doing this. The names don't even make a lot of sense to me since you're saying that they're commands. Commanding a pet with "Tenacity" is pretty laughable. They're commands; they should be *commands* not abstract descriptors.

- Because BST is a tank and their main mechanic is Lifelink, pathing for BST pets should aim to place them right next to the BST.

Random note on pet control: the AI manipulation abilities are pet abilities, not local abilities. You don't need to have Sic be given at all because it would just be part of the standard allotment of controls. I'm also not sure why you'd feel the need to specifically lock them into Heel AI all the time. Being able to put the pet on auto-fire would be pretty useful when you don't need the tank CD it provides (which is the only real reason that you're locking it).

As to manipulating behavior, the only change needed would be a modification to the Heel function, which would simply be a modification of the priority between attacking the target and staying near you. as it stands, the AI places higher priority on attacking than being near you. Place proximity at higher priority than attacking and the pet sticks next to you and only attacks when it's next to you. No need to modify pathing at all.

Forcing class abilities to be AI manipulation abilities is also not something I'd really recommend. The pets should get their abilities as normal based upon your level and the job should actually provide you with abilities. The existing pet system works perfectly well without having to play wonky with it and turn pet abilities into job abilities.

- Of course, we also have the issue of illusion of choice, which pet classes like BST are subject to. Someone may get mad if the ideal pet for endgame was a Boar but they wanted to use a Coeurl or a Tortoise, for example.

Especially for a tank, this is going to be the biggest problem with having a crapton of different pets since predictable incoming damage is automatically going to be better for any fight because it's predicable (which is why Featherfoot is considered to be mediocre even for a MNK who gets 25% out of it). The pet with the straight up damage reduction ability is going to be king for everything.

- As a third option, BST pets could be tied to the storyline, meaning the BST would get five predetermined pets through the job quests and simply not have the option to tame mobs, but that I feel would go against the theme of the job.

This is probably the best option because it doesn't require what is, honestly, a completely arbitrary new system that doesn't really serve a useful purpose other than assuaging people's expectations from WoW. What's the difference between going out and finding an animal as part of a job quest and going out on your own and grabbing it? If anything, the job quest makes more sense because you're finding a *specific* animal as opposed to simply a type of animal and you're specifically training *that* animal and forming a bond with *that* animal over a long period of time. It lets you work in a better story too, because you're tying the animals you're dealing with into it rather than being able to handle whatever random beast you just tamed as well as the beast you've had with you since the beginning.

I'm not sure how exactly you can say that it works against the theme since the theme is simply an animal trainer. If anything, it makes more sense for there to be animals gained as part of the story because you're *training* them as opposed to just randomly finding an animal, taming it, and then releasing it later whenever you feel like it. Taming actually becomes something more complex and interesting than channeling an ability for 10 seconds.

- Call of the Wild is a mini-DPS cooldown that happens to provide major mitigation for the BST.

Since the primary purpose of it is to provide mitigation, it would probably be more apt to say that it's a major mitigation CD, on par with Hallowed Ground or Holmgang, with a small DPS increase than a DPS CD that provides mitigation. The primary function is as a tank CD, not a damage boost.

- In theory, between Lifelink's damage reduction, Redirect, Crack, Nourish, Convalescence and Second Wind BST should not be lacking for mitigation or recovery tools. That's not even counting Tenacity abilities from pets.

That's actually a painfully weak CD suite. Nourish and Second Wind don't scale with incoming damage and, even then, are tiny bits in situations where you actually want a tank CD (especially since Nourish is over the course of 15 seconds so it's not even instant). Crack is painfully weak as well since it's only a single target that you're reducing damage taken from and, even if it's on a 25% uptime, recall that WAR has a 10% damage reduction debuff for *all* targets that it keeps up at all times. On top of that, both it and Redirect, as tank CDs themselves, are complete and utter jokes since they provide so very little.

Even if you turn the Tenacity abilities into abilities on par with the other tank CDs, you're still about 3 abilities short of an actual tank CD suite. Nourish is basically on par with Bloodbath. Second Wind is going to be passed over in favor of Featherfoot. Look at what WAR takes from its CCs and how it uses them, since you basically gave the same suite to BST: Conv, Provoke, Featherfoot, Internal Release, and a slot that basically means nothing. The only particularly potent CDs you get from the CD suite are Conv, which is actually a full on useful tank CD, and Featherfoot, which isn't a tank CD so much as an ability you use on CD because it's unreliable and only gets results over the long term.

You should really turn Flayer into a tank so that you can actually give it a legitimate tank CD instead of wasting slots on CDs that have to be weak because you decided to make it a DPS. On top of that, if you abandon the idea of turning the pet system into a copy of WoW's, you could actually turn the job abilities into stuff that the class actually needs, like tank CDs and some extra utility and attacks.

The biggest things that need changing are turning Flayer into a tank, abandoning the notion that the pet system needs to be completely overhauled to be like WoW's for whatever reason, and fixing the CD suite you provided, which is laughable.

[Duelle]

Since you made BST a tank job, one of the first problems you're going to have is the transition from the class into the job forcing a change in role. DPS>healer works for ACN>SCH because SMN is already there to preserve the role continuance. As such, since you probably have it in your mind to keep BST as a tank, it would probably work better to have Flayer be a tank as well.

Well, I did intend Flayer having a DPS job. It just took me a while to decide on a blue mage suggestion (updated my post, btw).

Also, since you're grabbing a hold of them, it would probably work to have it drag the target closer since you *are* immobilizing them with a whip you've wrapped around them (which means that you're holding on to them).

I guess Lariat could bring the enemy a couple of yalms closer. Then again, the distance thing has been abandoned by the developers as far as I can tell. It's not like in 1.0 where a mid-range weapon like a spear or a whip would have longer reach than a sword. I Suggested Lariat assuming it would require the standard 3-yalm melee range.

It's worse than Blood for Blood (which is 30% for 20 seconds every 80 seconds) while having a side effect that is a fair bit worse (since it decreases damage rather than survivability). The side effect is also something that's a bit wonky because short term reductions in attack speed get rather wonky depending upon how the game calculates relative attack speed, especially given that you're having the attack speed reduction be a fundamental part of the class.

The wording is weird, but I was copying how the game words stuff. What you'd get after recklessness expires is a 15% Slow debuff. Kind of how Berserk's "prevents the use of weapon skills" translates to "you get Pacification".

I'm also not entirely sure that "Recklessness" really makes me think of reducing attack speed when it fades (or any kind of reduction in effectiveness when it *fades*; Recklessness makes me think of a negative effect while it's active). I see that as something more like "Adrenaline Rush", where you push yourself and then get tired when it fades.

As mentioned I wanted Recklessness to originally deal a small amount of damage to the Flayer per attack executed throughout the duration. Use of the whip requires a lot of control, and the idea behind this ability would be that the flayer focuses on hitting harder with the whip, hurting themselves in the process (which is what would happen in real life if you don't maintain control over the whip). Since self damage didn't seem to work, I figured the flayer would want to slow down a bit to regain the right amount of control and momentum over their weapon.

The standard for stun CDs is 20 seconds and it's a straight up plain-Jane stun without anything else. It would probably be better to reduce the CD down to the standard and give it something beyond the stun itself like all of the others do. Something that you may think about would be an extended range on it (such as 10y) to "make up" for the lack of damage.

Noted and changed in my suggestion.

Since you can't attack while it's active and it only lasts 6 seconds, 20 potency is basically nothing. If you really want a trait that causes Lariat to deal some damage, you could safely beef it up to 200 potency or more because, even that high, it's a mere 166.67 potency per GCD compared to the 300 you'd expect to be dealing.

I figured the selling point of Lariat is the CC effect rather than the damage. In fact, the sacrifice in damage potential would be justified by the CC. I could bump if up to a 35 potency DoT, though.

I actually think that Wide Sweeps might actually be a bit OP since getting 2 extra targets with your ST attacks with 25% uptime is *incredibly* good, even with the reduction in damage dealt.

Well, the idea is that you'd pop Wide Sweeps in AoE situations where you have multiple targets to take down. A boss fight with multiple adds (slime adds in the second WP boss come to mind) would pretty much the best place to use (though yes I can see Flayer being very useful for AoE burning stuff in speed runs). I can agree to nerfing the damage by 50% and making it hit two additional targets.

I don't really see how implementing a system like Greased Lightning or Wrath would really complicate things too much. It makes a lot more sense as well since momentum is something that you build up, as opposed to a constant. I don't really see a problem with it as long as it's not just a Greased Lightning clone. You could even tweak some of the abilities to consume Momentum to provide the class itself with a fundamental bonus resource set up like WAR has (Wide Sweeps is a good contender; Lariat might also work).

I was considering using a system like what you're suggesting but as a shortcut for instant spells for BLU. Something like using certain abilities gives you a buff that if you stack to 5 lets you cast one spell instantly. I never really worked the kinks on cast times for blue magic, so that's still a possibility.

Momentum, of course, isn't really something that I think of when I think of whips, mainly because whips aren't large weapons with a lot of inertia. Momentum tends to be more about large objects that move slowly and build up to high speeds after a while, not a weapon that, honestly, stops moving as soon as you make the attack.

Depends. The idea of momentum came from how chain whips are used in martial arts. The stuff I read on it mentioned that the martial artist wraps and unwraps the whip constantly to keep the weapon's momentum (rather than having to spend time doing the wind up). It's not a perfect transition of that idea, but I did keep it in mind.

For balance sake, the damage transfer needs to be restricted to 80% to prevent massive eHP bloat and match the current tanks. Mean mitigation would be fixed by having the pet get healed for 25% of whatever healed you (which equates to a 25% increase in healing) though that's basically duplicating the effects of Shield Oath while using the same fundamental mechanisms as Defiance (you pet healing for a part of whatever healed you is basically +healing and the damage transfer to a secondary source is basically +hp) though it has the advantage of being painted over a few times. Also, immunity to auras and AoE attacks isn't enough. To keep things balanced, the pet needs to be unaffected by *any* multitarget effect at all, including heals since the pet getting healed by the AoE means that the BST benefits twice. As such, it's probably better go say that the pet is only affected by effects specifically targeting it: no AoEs, no cleaves, nothing.

These are all fair points. I'll change them in my suggestion.

Also, unless you plan on the transfer unaffected by anything else temporary effects, you shouldn't have the surv CDs affect both of them since that would be another case of double dipping.

The double dipping is intentional, which is why I made the cooldowns so seemingly weak. Effect potency may have to be tweaked to keep it balanced with PLD and WAR, but the idea is that the double dipping would in effect make the cooldowns stronger without giving BLU or Flayer access to tank-level cooldowns when they are DPS.

This does bring up the question of what the -dam should be and how much damage the pet deals. The damage reduction should be large enough to account for the DPS increase derived from the pet. I'm not sure what the pot/GCD for the pet auto-attacks is, but, assuming it's ~50, that's ~13% of total damage for your character.

I'm making a change in this. Lifelink would nerf the BST's own damage by 30%. The pet's damage could then be tweaked to make up the difference and maintain parity with WAR and PLD.

Someone was looking at WoW hunters when they were doing this.

Considering WoW's pet system blew FFXI's pet system out of the water in nearly every aspect, this isn't a bad thing. >.>

the AI manipulation abilities are pet abilities, not local abilities. You don't need to have Sic be given at all because it would just be part of the standard allotment of controls.

I wouldn't want BST to have that horrid pet UI we currently have in the game. By giving BST commands and having pets respond appropriately, I was aiming to tone down the micromanagement jobs like SCH have on their plate. Unlike a healer that's safe in the distance, the tank already has enough to worry about to micromanage a pet on top of trying to stay alive and avoiding the marks on the ground.

I'm also not sure why you'd feel the need to specifically lock them into Heel AI all the time.

I did this in part because of how Lifelink requires the master and pet to be near each other. Screwy AI (like SCH and SMN pets running off randomly) would likely get the BST killed.

This is probably the best option because it doesn't require what is, honestly, a completely arbitrary new system that doesn't really serve a useful purpose other than assuaging people's expectations from WoW. What's the difference between going out and finding an animal as part of a job quest and going out on your own and grabbing it? If anything, the job quest makes more sense because you're finding a *specific* animal as opposed to simply a type of animal and you're specifically training *that* animal and forming a bond with *that* animal over a long period of time. It lets you work in a better story too, because you're tying the animals you're dealing with into it rather than being able to handle whatever random beast you just tamed as well as the beast you've had with you since the beginning.

Well, some people like certain animals more than others. I'm sure some would want a wolf pet, while others may want a buffalo pet.

I did have a backup for story-determined pets:

Suggested pets (story-determined)
30 Wolf - Wild Fang, Nerve Sever, Furious Howl
35 Mantis - Standing Chine, Kneeling Snath, Impale
40 Vulture - Feather Barrage, Wing Cutter, Helldive
45 Crab - Scissor Clip, Bubble Shower, Pincer Hold
50 Drake - Slam, Burning Cyclone, Smouldering Scales

Of course the story would have to revolve either the player character being tasked with taming rare animals or re-taming beasts that went out of control after their master died or something.

I'm not sure how exactly you can say that it works against the theme since the theme is simply an animal trainer.

More a response to FFXI nostalgia. I've seen too many BSTs complain when SE started moving away from taming pets and more in the direction of jug-summoned monsters.

Something I was considering was replacing Tenacity with a self-cover ability (similar to how Interceptor could randomly absorb attacks aimed at Shadow in FFVI) and use that as a defensive cooldown. It would reduce the number of abilities per pet to two, though...

[Thyrel]

As someone stated before having a class rely on its pet only is no viable in this game, so why not make the BST actually transform into the beast ?
You have Melee, Tank, Ranged, Caster, and maybe some other monster transformations and when you transform you just get 10 new abilities from that specific monster type. Other than that I don't see how a BST could work..