How do certain "multi-hit" skills work?

[gamepob]

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Anything that manipulates enmity, requires positioning, or can only be cast on party members, can't really be used while soloing.

Which would mean that pugilist in solo fight is just standing in one spot, smashing your buttons and occasional movement to the side to avoid attacks? Forget about all those buffs, crits and what not. They are here just for group play.
How is that not "almost ineffective"? When I fight solo I only get to use a part of the skill and do a part of the damage the skill could do. Just because I am solo. Or is it because their implementation of this combat system is so appalling?

[Urthdigger]

I could explain how there is more to combat than just that. But it's become abundantly clear that you've already made your decision and aren't actually looking for answers. Otherwise you'd actually pay attention rather than being an endless stream of hyperbole.

[gamepob]

I have to apologize. It was not my intention to insult, be dismissive or anything similar. I do appreciate your desire to help me understand and I thank you for it.
To me, personally, the difference between what I see my char doing and what the actual result of my char's actions are, is because of badly implemented combat system. If I see my char hitting something in the back, I expect this to be the actual result in the fight. Not "Oh, while you were hitting him in the back server decided he is actually already turned towards you".
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[gamepob]

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Now, why is this my expectation? Because other games that do have skills that require you to be at the certain position regarding your enemy, manage to do exactly that. I hope you can appreciate my expectations since they are based on similar experiences.
Yes, this game's combat system probably does rely on positioning the most of them all, but doesn't that mean they should have made it more robust? Where in the tool-tips, guide or manual does it say that those added benefits of our skills are to be used only in groups? I think that is your own, personal deduction as a result of you adjusting to a badly implemented system.
You say that's not the case and that there is more to combat than that. I will be the first to agree that there are still things in this game, I don't understand or badly comprehend.
So I would like to present a challenge to you madam/sir. Please, help me understand it without using hyperbole yourself.

[Estellios]

It only makes sense that they would be more useful in groups because you typically have someone holding the enemy's attention so that they do not move around which is slightly important when trying to get to a specific position. This is also a multiplayer game so it stands to reason that stuff will cater towards it. You will still kill things perfectly fine even without getting all your bonuses.

Is it really that hard to understand that some skills will just work better in groups, just like some skills work better solo? Why the hell would I use Medica on Conjurer when soloing, for example. Why would LNC use Keen Flurry or PGL use Featherfoot if they don't have to take damage for extended periods of time when they have a tank?

PGL has a combo that does not require positioning to do full damage, just for crit bonuses (and after the first enemy you can take advantage of it by initiating on the flank or rear on the next enemy) and LNC only requires Heavy Thrust and the initial hit of a combo to land for the bonus to work, which means you can just open with heavy thrust from the flank then Leg Sweep and begin your combo without issue.

[Niwashi]

Are you trying to tell me that in this game you are supposed to fight only in group?

It just means that certain skills work best in groups. A gladiator's skills for drawing aggro are useless when he's the only person fighting a mob, so would have aggro regardless. A conjurer's Raise skill is only usable for raising other people, as he cannot raise himself. A lancer or pugilist's positional skills are sometimes useful solo, but significantly more powerful in groups where there's someone else to hold the mob's attention. These classes all work fine solo, but they work differently solo than they do in a group.

and yet they implemented this system without specifying in tool tips or anywhere else that those skills are supposed to only be used in groups as they are almost ineffective in solo fights.

Well, Urthdigger and Estellios have both pointed out occasions where you CAN in fact get the positional bonuses solo. If the mob is busy with a skill induction or if it's been stunned, then you can get behind it just fine. It applies whenever you can maintain the proper position for that skill bonus, so that's what the tooltip tells you.

[Urthdigger]

Soloing as a pugilist is all about counterattacks. And I don't mean passive counterattacks like other games, this is actively countering enemy actions against you. First off, whenever you dodge an attack, you can use Haymaker, which does a heft amount of damage and inflicts slow. This rewards you both for using Featherfoot to dodge attacks, and for paying attention to your hotbar and not just spamming. Also, at 15 and 30 you get DoT attacks, which require paying attention to the enemy's debuffs so you re-apply them when they wear off, and not before.

In addition, as I mentioned before, while an enemy is readying a special attack is a prime time to circle around it and get a directional bonus. In addition, at level 38 you get the ability Steel Peak, which stuns the monster long enough for you to circle around.

These are all things that make solo combat as a pugilist more than just spamming the same three moves over and over. Getting the bonuses doesn't require a party (though that makes it a lot easier), but if you're solo it's all about paying attention to the fight and reacting accordingly.

[gamepob]

Thanks to all for your answers.
I think it's safe to say that we are simply looking at this from two different perspectives.
The thing is ... I play around this limitation. I still try to circle around, or go through them in order to fully utilize the skill. And like I said in my previous post, I am partially successful in that. And the reason I was only partially successful is the reason I started this thread. I got my answer, thanks to you guys, but that answer raised an issue we are talking about now.
The issue being: why is the inability to fully utilize skills whenever I can, the result of a technically bad design and not the result of my bad play style. You yourselves said that the reason I don't get that flank buff or back crit every time I see myself applying the skill properly, is because server calculates one thing and client the other. Not skill, playstyle or environment limitation.
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[gamepob]

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What I am trying to say is that what you guys say, is the result of your experiences in adjusting to deficiencies of this system. It's not the result of a game's basic design.
Imagine that not being the case. Imagine that every time I saw myself hitting my enemy in the back I would actually get that hit counted as back hit. Imagine how that would change the game? Your only limitation in using the skill properly every time, would actually be your own skill alone.
I dare you guys to say and think, that such a thing would be worse.
That's where our perspective is different. You guys already play adjusted and focus on other aspects of combat. I am at my start and I simply can't fathom how one of the most important parts of the game works so haphazardly. Maybe I need to play some more before I will adopt "It's as good as it can get" philosophy.

I think it's also safe to say we will not be able to agree on this, no matter how long we discuss it, so thanks again and have a nice day.

[Naryoril]

just to say: it's not that hard to hit from behind with bootshine, or from the flank, even without any special skills or the like. For example bootshine: just run straight through the enemy and then use bootshine. There is a setting to automatically turn you towards the enemy when using a skill and it is activated by default. So you don't even have to turn yourself before using bootshine. Doing it like this you can hit an enemy pretty reliably from behind. you can do the same for flank hits, you don't need to turn towards the enemy before using the skill.