How do certain "multi-hit" skills work?

[gamepob]

I have tried Lancer and Pugilist and both of them have some skills that are comprised of more than one actual punch or hit.
Many of those skills require you to be positioned either at the back of the enemy or on his flank.
Which part of those skills counts as a hit, success?
Now, let's say I am trying to move from front of my enemy to his back as I have to use Bootshine and it has to be delivered to my enemy's back in order to critically hit.
I have just activated my bootshine, but since it is comprised of four punches, I am still in a process of delivering this one skill while my enemy has already started to turn.
My first two punches hit him in the back, but my last punches hit his flank and/or front, as he turned so fast.
Did I just hit him critically or not? I know I can see this represented on the screen, but after many tests I still can't figure out if it's the first part or the last part of the skill that counted as a hit thus making it a critical.

[Estellios]

It's decided the moment you activate the skill. Damage is always calculated when a skill is initiated, but doesn't get displayed until the animation ends. Positioning is just really difficult to perfect if you are solo, since enemies start turning around immediately you may actually be hitting the wrong side when you think you are hitting the rear or flank. The only way to reliable get into the non-front position on an enemy is to stun them.

[Urthdigger]

Those skills are, in fact, single hit. It is only the animation that shows several hits. As for whether it counts or not, the inevitable lag between you and the server means if it looks like a close call, it likely didn't count.

It's been my experience that you cannot perform an attack to the enemy's flank or back while it is attacking you, unless you quickly maneuver while it is readying an attack, stunned, or slept.

[VisRalis]

The first position & hit is what counts. Moving away afterwards while animation is still in progress makes no difference.
This should be the same for Pugilist.

[gamepob]

Thank you for your help.
But, unfortunately, now I am even more baffled with the game. Don't get me wrong. I think this game has several great features, but combat system ... I don't know. I was actually hoping you guys would say that the entire skill has to land on the required side to hit. That would mean I have a L2P issue.
After I got home yesterday, I deliberately played only for test purposes, and especially Lancer combat is where I felt completely out of touch with what was happening on the screen. Like Estellios said: "you may actually be hitting the wrong side when you think you are hitting the rear or flank". How is that possible?
Besides that constant delay that they implemented into almost everything, combat system looks to be working by the principle "you just press your buttons and something will happen. Just maybe not the exact thing you thought you've done".
Surprising, really.

[Estellios]

You misinterpreted what I meant. My point was that your problem is because you are trying to solo something and they are turning as soon as you move out from in front of them and they aren't mid-skill or asleep, stunned, or bound. There's nothing random or anything about it at all.

If you are in a party and the enemy isn't moving around the rear/flank skills work perfectly fine.

Also don't forget that Bootshine's auto-crit not only requires you to be behind the enemy, but also requires you to be in Opo-opo stance which you only get by going through a combo sequence. You can't open raw with Bootshine and get the auto-crit. If you are soloing, use Steel Peak before you run behind it to do Bootshine and you will get the critical bonus easily. It also lasts long enough that you can even work in a flank skill in most cases.

[gamepob]

Are you trying to tell me that in this game you are supposed to fight only in group? Isn't that a bit strange? Even for an MMO? What does that mean for a pugilist who is supposed to be everywhere else but in the front?
Imagine all those other games that have "back-stabbing" or similar skills. I can hit someone only when I get behind them, BUT ... I see myself being behind them AND my skill fires off as it's supposed to. What I see IS what I get. Not in this game.
I did some tests on approx. 25-30 enemies that were several levels lower than me so I would stay alive longer. I was only targeting their flank and using only "Heavy thrust" skill for the entire fight. I even moved around them for so long until their flank was (visibly) turned to me before I used my thrust. In the end I calculated that I managed to visually hit them in the flank in at least 80-90% of hits, but buff was reapplied in only about 20-25% of hits.
How to counter that besides playing only in groups?

[Urthdigger]

The problem is, what you see in the game doesn't reflect the actual nature of the game. Take, for example, when you lose connection. Everything appears to be frozen, incapable of moving, and you can attack monsters without being retaliated against. This is a mere illusion, as the server sees YOU as the one who is frozen.

That is perhaps an extreme example, but it serves to illustrate a point: There is a difference between what your client sees, and what the server sees. Movement is handled client-side: If it had to wait for a message from the server before showing you move, there would be a noticeable lag between pressing a button and seeing a result, which would make precise movements difficult. Monster positions, however, are server-side.

For the most part, with a decent connection, this doesn't cause a problem. However, because changing direction is a very quick thing to do for both players and monsters, the monster is able to quickly turn around and face you, even if it doesn't register on your screen. Even if there was no lag whatsoever, it would not change matters, it would still be almost impossible to hit an opponent's flank/back in normal combat.

That said, as was mentioned before you can use any status effect that prevents a monster from turning (Sleep or Stun) or wait until it's occupied with using a skill, since it cannot move while casting. The long and short of it though is that those bonuses ARE intended for use in a party.

You don't NEED to get the position bonuses all the time, especially when soloing. Every class has aspects of their skills that work much better, or only, with a party. Anything that manipulates enmity, requires positioning, or can only be cast on party members, can't really be used while soloing.

[gamepob]

I am beginning to understand that now. But what you said is just an excuse for a lousy combat system. Or more correctly it's implementation.
I understand that it's their game and thus the result of their decisions and design. But there is also something called "generally accepted standards". In this case it's a standard of quality. They knew there are going to be differences between server and client side and yet they implemented this system without specifying in tool tips or anywhere else that those skills are supposed to only be used in groups as they are almost ineffective in solo fights. Either they didn't expect the system to have such discrepancies or they did and done it any way. In either case it's bad quality that is the result.
Every other MMO out there has to work with server/client communication and yet they manage to offer you a combat system where "what you see is what you get". Why can't it be in this game as well?

[Urthdigger]

The skills are not "almost ineffective" when solo, they work perfectly well even without the directional bonuses. As for why other games can't work that way, I'm not sure. I haven't played any other MMO that stresses positioning as much as this one does. As I've said before, the delay is quite low, it's just that turning around is a very quick action.