Nostalgia

[Aegis]

I've seen a lot of threads referencing XI, XIV (pre ARR) and I see the word Nostalgia being bandied about to explain away why people have such warm feelings towards systems, communities, features etc from previous games.

Why is it so hard for people to believe that other players may have liked something they themselves did not and are clearly remembering how things actually were (while those claiming Nostalgia have a perfect memory of the same thing and it was clearly not as good, no bitterness colouring their vision, no sir)?

We get it, you didn't like it. Your opinion is valid. Do the community a favour and respect others' opinions and not denigrate them as being clouded by emotion and not based in experiential fact. Their memories are just as clear as yours are.

tl;dr

Claiming Nostalgia =

[yukikaze_yanagi]

because nostalgia have the problem to make everything look good when in reality they were or are bad. It's not a problem of "stop liking what i don't like"

[Tupsi]

because nostalgia have the problem to make everything look good when in reality they were or are bad. It's not a problem of "stop liking what i don't like"

Yep, a lot of us are nostalgic for gaming before DLC, I guess gaming before we had to buy everything in a game after an initial purchase was terrible.

[Pandastirfry]

Because looking back fondly on past experiences or items is the very definition of nostalgia? That might be why?

The problem is that when you let that nostalgia blind you to valid criticisms of what you are fondly remembering that it becomes a bad thing.

EDIT: in fact let me give an example, I loved the US run of Voltron: Defender of the Universe , I look back on watching it as a kid very fondly and have great memories of it. I watched it again as an adult... It is by all objective metric god-freaking-awful. Animation, voice acting, script, all of it wretched. However this has not changed my nostalgic feeling for the show. I still live it I'm just now cognizant of it flaws, and won't try to explain away or excuse them in the face of criticism

[Aegis]

because nostalgia have the problem to make everything look good when in reality they were or are bad. It's not a problem of "stop liking what i don't like"

But good and bad are entirely subjective; you can't objectivelysay something was 'bad' or 'good' unless you are getting into some fairly extreme examples. Some people like grinds that take months if not years. Some people hate them. No amount of nostalgia can make you believe that you really enjoyed doing something when you actually really hated it at the time. If you hated doing something at the time you can later think 'In hindsight it wasn't that bad' but it will never make you think 'In hindsight I really enjoyed it'.

Because looking back fondly on past experiences or items is the very definition of nostalgia? That might be why?

The problem is that when you let that nostalgia blind you to valid criticisms of what you are fondly remembering that it becomes a bad thing.

That definition of Nostalgia is correct, but it is being used here to imply people's memories are distorted by it. If person A says 'I liked something' person B is wrong to say 'You didn't like it at all. That's just nostalgia'.

[yukikaze_yanagi]

But good and bad are entirely subjective;you can't objectivelysay something was 'bad' or 'good' unless you are getting into some fairly extreme examples. Some people like grinds that take months if not years. Some people hate them. No amount of nostalgia can make you believe that you really enjoyed doing something when you actually really hated it at the time. If you hated doing something at the time you can later think 'In hindsight it wasn't that bad' but it will never make you think 'In hindsight I really enjoyed it'..

in my case it's backward: i somehow liked party grind in FFXI. But that very same game made me hate it, for the atrocius waiting times to find a party when you weren't the favored class of that month.I liked PUP the day it come out with toau. I soloed ALL the way to 75 in an era when field of valor didn't exist nor campaign because the general consensus was PUP was broken and waas harmful having one in party.
No thanks. Never again i want to be that dependent to other's people just for EXP.
People like in that way ? that's cool. But don't play me the tune it was the best way to exp ever, because it wasn't

[Yamimarik]

Not everything is nostalgia for everyone...

I agree with the OP. I loved FFXI pre SoA! The only reason I quit was b/c of that expansion and what it brought.

I WILL SAY THIS NOW THOUGH PLEASE READ CAREFULLY FOR THOSE WHO NEVER READ IN THESE FORUMS!!!!

I DO NOT WANT FFXIV:ARR TO BE FFXI-2 I WOULD QUIT SO FAST! I DO NOT WANT AN XI SEQUEL....
So now that I got that out of the way, yes I enjoyed FFXI so much. Did it have it's CONS vs PROS? of course! Nothing is prefect lol life would be so dull and meaningless if it was perfect and so would games @.@

[yukikaze_yanagi]

Not everything is nostalgia for everyone...

I agree with the OP. I loved FFXI pre SoA! The only reason I quit was b/c of that expansion and what it brought.

I WILL SAY THIS NOW THOUGH PLEASE READ CAREFULLY FOR THOSE WHO NEVER READ IN THESE FORUMS!!!!

I DO NOT WANT FFXIV:ARR TO BE FFXI-2 I WOULD QUIT SO FAST! I DO NOT WANT AN XI SEQUEL....
So now that I got that out of the way, yes I enjoyed FFXI so much. Did it have it's CONS vs PROS? of course! Nothing is prefect lol life would be so dull and meaningless if it was perfect and so would games @.@

And that is a point ? I loved FFXI too, i played for 6 years. But if i should play again a game like that with the same experience and awareness i have now, i would never touch it even with a 20-foot long stick. The nostalgia i have can't get me blind on how much bad sides he have

[Yamimarik]

And that is a point ? I loved FFXI too, i played for 6 years. But if i should play again a game like that with the same experience and awareness i have now, i would never touch it even with a 20-foot long stick. The nostalgia i have can't get me blind on how much bad sides he have

I'm not sure what your point is to my point?

I was just agreeing with the OP. Not everything everyone says good about FFXI or even FFXIV 1.0 is purely nostalgia. There were some really good PROS in XI (I don't have personal experience from XIV 1.0)

There were some really bad CONS in XI too. (again no personal exp. from 1.0)

I'm not sure what else to say honestly... so...?

Aside from the wonky grind XI had... if I ever did find another game like XI would I play it? Nope.. because unless it's Final Fantasy I don't touch MMO's anymore. But that's just me personally with my (omg here is that magical word again...) personal opinion.

[yukikaze_yanagi]

I'm not sure what your point is to my point?


I was just agreeing with the OP. Not everything everyone says good about FFXI or even FFXIV 1.0 is purely nostalgia. There were some really good PROS in XI (I don't have personal experience from XIV 1.0)

There were some really bad CONS in XI too. (again no personal exp. from 1.0)

I'm not sure what else to say honestly... so...?

Of course FFXI had his share of good points. But there are many thing people still want to see even if it's too archaic nowdays, or can't just work with this game.
I'll make you an example on a topic running rampart since 1.0: skillchains. Yes, they were a nice concept. Yes, they promote team coordination. Until CoP people still did. Then comed parsers, everyone realized they were shit and got abandoned. And still people in this forum praised that system like was the best system ever created, while it did more harm than good.
And furthermore, with this battle system they are impossible to replicate, and the game produrer already sayd a flat out NO when asked for individual limit breaks to link like shillchains, because it would become just another flashy skill at disposal.
This is the worst kind of nostalgia.

edit:

Aside from the wonky grind XI had... if I ever did find another game like XI would I play it? Nope.. because unless it's Final Fantasy I don't touch MMO's anymore. But that's just me personally with my (omg here is that magical word again...) personal opinion.

this have anything to do with every point i'm trying to make