[dev1032] Class uniqueness or character customization?

[Akillius]

I agree with the OP completely on this. The reason class rolls have not been fully defined is the lack of challenging content. The Armory System is a wonderful idea and provides class versatility never before available to a MMO. The example of two different ways to spec a Lancer says it all, all DD or support debuffer. I am for continued "tweeking" of classes and the additions of maybe unique abilities. For instance, add a few additional class specific abilities like Jump.

As to Visch's comments, are you serious? You would rather have a game where everyone spec's the same way, wears the same gear and runs the same dungeon over and over? Have you looked into WoW?

[Meenkieblade]

Brainstorming!


Armory System
-It's nice to have my own character with abilities I've earned to create a character that can do whatever I want.

-COUNTERPOINT This system goes WAY too far with this though. There's practically no uniqueness to any class aside from the weapon you're using and some HP/MP stuff. Yay, I can dress my mage up in heavy plate armor....Why? Who knows?

--Try this--Make a lot of the abilities classes unlock as they level specific to that class. Keep the Abilites/Traits that you unlock with Guild Points open to all jobs. That way, there's some crossover that you have earned....but the classes keep most of the uniqueness. People will have pride in their' main class AND have the effort show on other classes.

And while they're at it....how about adding more things to get with Guild points? Gear for that class that's unique maybe? Or maybe some abilities that don't borderline on the silly and retarded? Overkill in choices would be great even! I say....give the guilds a bigger role! Let them issue their' own guildleves....getting a quest every 20+10 class levels makes the guilds seem weak and static. Why not have Guild events? Events where people could compete to make the best item....or time trials for some battle....or large-scale scavenger hunts! This can earn Guild Points towards uber abilites or something!

So, in summary....
Make the abilities classes earn as they level specific to that class for the most part.
Make Guild Mark bought abilities and traits usable by all classes (or maybe unlock level-abilities for other classes this way!)
Add a LOT more Guild Mark buyable things. (Abilities, traits, Boosts, Armor and Accessories, CSA (Class Specific Armor))
Guild boosts maybe? For example; A trinket that a GLA uses that keeps emnity raised or something.


~Meenk

[Abriael]

I agree with the OP completely on this. The reason class rolls have not been fully defined is the lack of challenging content.

By the way, yes, I agree with this too. Mobs in Final Fantasy XIV are EASY. I don't think I encountered one that challenged me.

It's not classes that need to be rebalanced (mostly at least, I'm all for implementing a few, class-defining, class-restricted abilities), but monsters.

Give monsters an appropriate level of challenge, and you'll suddenly see people sticking to the right roles (casters can't tank if they get bishotted because they don't wear heavy armor like in every other MMORPG, tanks/melee can't main heal if their gimped/non group heals can't keep up with the damage over time and so forth), or going back to the bind, learning the lesson the hard way.

Challenging group content is the way to define roles, not removing any kind of versatility and uniqueness from the game.

[AtryxEtair]

I also think the lack of gear requirements plays a huge role in fading the line between classes and levels.

[Abriael]

-COUNTERPOINT This system goes WAY too far with this though. There's practically no uniqueness to any class aside from the weapon you're using and some HP/MP stuff. Yay, I can dress my mage up in heavy plate armor....Why? Who knows?

The counterpoint is flawed by the environment in which it's been experimented. Excessively easy mobs make the differences less evident.

You can dress your mage up in heavy armor, but he will receive much less protection from that armor than someone with the preferred class. If your mage dressed in heavy armor can tank effectively, the problem isn't that he can wear heavy armor, but the fact that the mob doesn't hit hard enough (or that the difference in bonuses between favored classes and non-favored classes isn't high enough)
Ultimately, you can dress your mage in heavy plate armor, because your mage has a body, and heavy plate armor tends to fit a body (I dabble with heavy armor, and I still haven't encountered any that tells me "NO! You're not fit to wear me! Begone!"). He isn't necesssarily proficent at using it though, and it's appropriate that the protection he'll receive from it will be limited.

Other differences are rather evident. Mages can't use heavy shields, resulting in a much reduced protection from them (barely justifying the stamina used for guard just when they solo).

Non casters can't use any AOE effect with spells, and ultimately the effect of every single ability not belonging to the equipped class is limited by class affinity.

So yeah, the differences ARE noticeable, and would be much more noticeable when experimented in an environment that challenges them to the limit.

The only real problem is that the FFXIV environment, at the moment, does not challenge the player and his abilities to the limit. It doesn't even get near to that.

Hell, I can easily tank anything my group throws at me effectively with one hand on the joypad and the other hand holding the coffee cup, as I watch anime on the second PC. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

This means that even seriously gimped abilities/defence/attack are still sufficent to fullfill a main role.

Add the challenge, and the abilities will become sufficent only for limited support/soloing, and there you have your class uniqueness. Without the hassle of removing any kind of class flexibility (that many enjoy) from the game.

[Yuuki_Talamara]

i like what you are saying to a point abriael. yes i agree, that mobs DO need to be a bit harder. BUT by saying well a mage shouldn't be able to tank, isn't that in some ways forcing that player back into the role of debuff nuke and cure spam? which then defeats the purpose of customization to begin with? personally, i like my melee mage. i played a rdm for years and all that resulted me in as a party member was cure spam and buff galore. TOTALLY negating the fact that my rdm COULD carry a sword and nuking on rdm was OUT OF THE QUESTION until recently!