Nostalgia

[Hyrist]

Excellent argument in favor or racism there brohan. The majority of people in US prisons are African American. African Americans must be criminals.

Nice red herring. Removing an argument of its context in order to support yours is really poor comprehension skills.


We're talking behavior stereotypes, or tropes, not racial profiling. If someone follows a reasonable course of behavior that matches a well established precedent, then it is a safe assumption that the individual will continue to follow that precedent until they prove themselves otherwise.

It's as simple as pattern recognition. We hate to think of ourselves a predictable on the grand scale, but we as human beings ultimately are.

Sad, I had credited you as an individual that was capable of holding a civil conversation and presenting your points in a constructive manner, and now this. I hope such a course can continue rather than dive into personal attacks.
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As far as the individual mechanics. There is a difference in presentation between how you are presenting your case and how countless others are presenting theirs. Your display is far better than that of uncountable number of others.

Many of the ideas you list are something I'd support, (Aside from AH system, I do not believe blind bidding is appropriate for this kind of economy.) And I would like to speak of them in more detail.

However some of these suggestions in my opinion deserve their own thread individually, while others (such as gambling tables) Could probably be done as part of a greater whole (such as a Minigame discussion.) I have confidence that if you segment these properly, they would make the ground for good conversation and refinement of ideas for the developers to consider.

And it would lead as a good example on how to get others to introduce topics and conversations rather than the buzzwords, hyperbole, and falling into common tropes we've been having in the forum for quite a while now.

In fact if you'd like to start a topic (I think a the KS/BC/ZNM discussion would be a good one to start.) I'd gladly join you over in it and talk over it more. However I'd like to keep things more or less on topic here.

[Kazamoto]

Nice red herring. Removing an argument of its context in order to support yours is really poor comprehension skills.

We're talking behavior stereotypes, or tropes, not racial profiling. If someone follows a reasonable course of behavior that matches a well established precedent, then it is a safe assumption that the individual will continue to follow that precedent until they prove themselves otherwise.

It's as simple as pattern recognition. We hate to think of ourselves a predictable on the grand scale, but we as human beings ultimately are.

Sad, I had credited you as an individual that was capable of holding a civil conversation and presenting your points in a constructive manner, and now this. I hope such a course can continue rather than dive into personal attacks.

My point, though I agree tastelessly posed is you are guilty of using a stereotype that is not empirically true, but supported by your own confirmation bias.
And I as you say, disagree with the stereotype suggested that, because someone played FFXI, they would automatically find it to be the best MMO based on mechanics and community.

My statement was indeed a bit of a red herring as it did not relate to the exact discussion at hand. But it did relate to your assertion that all stereotypes are true and took that to it's most ridiculous extent. See also: Asian woman drivers

Regardless of the trope or stereotype, to say that they would not exist if they were not true over generalizes a population, and when people like myself acknowledge the faults with FFXI, but try to also point out the strengths, we are hit with a wall of "LOL NOSTALGIA ROSE GLASSES HAHA" comments by people who do not truly seek a conversation for the betterment of us all.

[Hyrist]

My point, though I agree tastelessly posed is you are guilty of using a stereotype that is not empirically true, but supported by your own confirmation bias.

And I as you say, disagree with the stereotype suggested that, because someone played FFXI, they would automatically find it to be the best MMO based on mechanics and community.

We can explore the course of the conversations in detail if you wish about whether or not the bulk of the Nostalgia debate fits or does not fit within the stereotype it has generated and therefore is justified in an unbias manner if you wish. However at that point I would question both of our effective use of time in doing so.


I want to clarify, however, that I make no personal assertion that people believe that FFXI is implied that it is the best source to refer to. That is, however, often implied in the manner in which they present their argument, and often incites the backlash OP claims is undeserved. If someone lights a spark, do you blame the one lighting sparks, or the ones laying down dry tinder under them?

Granted, in my view both are guilty, but outreach must also be done with caution, not indignation.

Also, while you my cite confirmation bias as course in affirming your statement, this logical fallback always applies to both participants in a conversation.

My statement was indeed a bit of a red herring as it did not relate to the exact discussion at hand. But it did relate to your assertion that all stereotypes are true and took that to it's most ridiculous extent. See also: Asian woman drivers

This becomes semantics debate. Technically all stereotypes are true, but not in absolution. When you consider factors of limited use of time to debate, high emotional tensions involved in conversations about well exasperated topics, however, you will often deal with law of averages, in which generalizations and stereotypes prevail on both sides of a conversational spectrum. Therefore you get people who act like the stereotypes, and those who generalize individuals as stereotypes. I'll admit my part in the later, but there is enough personal experience on my part to justify this initial reaction. As there likely is enough experience on your end to justify yours.

My sympathies with your frustrations, but I have my own as well. I feel there is no innocent party in this situation, seeming we're dealing with people we cannot wholly speak for. But I can go and say that we are both equally exasperated with how much the conversations fall into the same old arguments.

Regardless of the trope or stereotype, to say that they would not exist if they were not true over generalizes a population, and when people like myself acknowledge the faults with FFXI, but try to also point out the strengths, we are hit with a wall of "LOL NOSTALGIA ROSE GLASSES HAHA" comments by people who do not truly seek a conversation for the betterment of us all.

And these people should simply be ignored until such a time in which they engage in the conversation properly. The flames are only fanned when the inappropriate retorts are acknowledged, on either and both sides. Those who focus on the topic of debate will find the conversation they are looking for.

I'll admit, it's a tiresome practice, which is why the forums need to be taken in shifts, in my opinion. Public outcry will not solve or improve this situation as it most often only serves to further fuel conformation bias. Instead, I suggest that we focus on serving as examples for those of the community who do not condone themselves properly to follow. At the very least, it can produce a small sub community that can engage in conversation among one another from differing gaming persuasions and continue a civil and productive discourse.