Current fix for Warrior is not using Warrior Skills?

[Taemek]

Stoneskin is the same on paladins and warriors.
Paladin
Base 1000hp
10% stoneskin = 100 hp on paladin
get attacked for 200 damage
paladin mitigates *.8, so take 160 damage
stoneskin aborbs 100, take 60
end hp = 940 hp
need a 60 point heal to get to full
Stoneskin reduced the incoming damage by 100/160, or 62.5%

Warrior
Base hp 1000hp, w/ defiance = 1250 hp
10% stoneskin = 125 hp
get attacked for 200 damage
stoneskin aborbs 125, take 75
end hp = 1175 hp
need a 75 point heal to get to full
Stoneskin reduced the incoming damage by 125/200, or 62.5%

Stoneskin reduced the damage taken by the same percent for each class.

This also shows the inferiority of wars. To top off the paladin, you need to heal for 60. An equivalent heal on a war would heal for 60*1.15 to account for wrath, which only gets you to 69 healed. This still wouldn't top off the war, as he is 75 health down.

The War is actually only 9 hp down, not 75.

[Judge_Xero]

if you mean me, sorry about my question look like I'm trolling. I really just want to know how Stoneskin work.
My main job is Warrior so I'm not playing PLD much that's why I don't know myself how Stoneskin work with Shield Oath. If it prevent certain damage before calculated with Shield Oath, for me that mean Stoneskin is working better on WAR than PLD.

well, I'm apologize again if it's look like I was trolling.

I would also like to see some testing on this as it's something I have been wondering about.
Since it's possible that the damage dealt can be in place before the reduction occurs on Paladin's Shield Oath, Shield Type heal spells i.e. Stoneskin can still be more effective on Warrior.

6250 HP War - 1125 Stoneskin
5000 HP PLD - 900 Stoneskin

Incoming damage 2000

WAR takes - 875 Damage
PLD takes - 880 Damage

that is of course if the damage that Stoneskin absorbs is calculated outside of Paladins Shield Oath buff (or any CD Buff for that matter), because the Paladin is not actually being hit.

Which if that's true it also means that heals by a Scholar are more effective on a Warrior because the magick'd barrier is increased by 15% through Infuriated and would be unaffected by the Defensive buffs of a Paladin.

[Leiron]

Um...no...Stoneskin's effect is after the fact, not before.
Shield oath is applied like this

Damage calculated x (shield oath reduction).
Stone skins effect uses the final damage calculation.

If it were before the fact, then defiance would have no effect on Stoneskin.

[Judge_Xero]

Um...no...Stoneskin's effect is after the fact, not before.
Shield oath is applied like this

Damage calculated x (shield oath reduction).
Stone skins effect uses the final damage calculation.

If it were before the fact, then defiance would have no effect on Stoneskin.

Are you sure? It makes sense that the damage reduction wouldn't take effect until the damage actually hits Paladin, which it doesn't with Stoneskin.

Why would Defiance have no effect on Stoneskin otherwise? The HP value is a static value. Buffed Stoneskin is just 18% of Max HP even when combined with Thrill of Battle. What would be a reasonable way to test that theory? Gather the average damage of a normal mob without Shield Oath and then compare it to how many hits it takes to remove Stoneskin. Even if you apply Defensive buffs + Shield Oath if the amount to remove Stoneskin is greater than the calculated shield value then CD's and Shield Oath does effect Damage pre-Paladin Damage.

[Leiron]

Are you sure? It makes sense that the damage reduction wouldn't take effect until the damage actually hits Paladin, which it doesn't with Stoneskin.

That sentence was a little confusing.
Stoneskins damage reduction uses the final damage calculation.
SO if you normally hit for 10, then use maim to hit for 12, that end damage number of 12 will be used instead of the base 10.
You can easily test this with weak hitting mobs as well.

Stoneskin relies on the final damage calculation, it doesn't use the damage from before reduction.
Stoneskin also utilizes the final HP of the target.
So if a Warrior has 7k health, then pops ToB for 1400 more health, then whats used for the 18% modifier is the 8400 HP number, and not the 7k nor the 5.4k hp base.

Test it yourself if you'd like.
That is the conclusion I came to from using it.
Always possible I am remembering it wrong since i tested it while back.

[Judge_Xero]

Yeah, I took some time and tested it. Lvl 15 Earth Sprites (No Shield and No Parry on Magic)

Stoneskin does factor in Buffs and Shield Oath. Warrior does pretty much get the shaft on everything.

[AsbelLahnt]

@ Mishini_Dracoto (I don't ever post in forums, so I have absolutely no idea how to "quote" someone properly. Check out this guys comments on page three of this thread) I completely agree with mentioning the use of infuriate to stack back up on your wrath.

I was reading the beginning of this thread and couldn't believe that no one understood how Infuriate worked! I keep myself at 5 stacks most of the time (so I have the 10% increased crit chance), and when really needed, I will IB, and then instantly use Infuriate so that the healers spells will still get 15% buff. Yes there's a CD for Infuriate, but that's the best way to maintain the buff, without the healers overhealing because you "topped yourself off".

That's why your other CD's will increase your wrath stacks, for a quicker progression to Infuriate. The Warrior just requires more micromanagement than most people will give the time for.

Of course this is not an "every-battle-no-matter-what" strategy, but it's extremely effective for me to survive and not look so squishy.

[ExarKun007]

Asbel, the use of IB is not in question. The point of the thread is that a warrior has a choice between using wrath abilities and getting the bonus healing that they were balanced for. Once a minute being able to go back to 5 wrath stacks is a joke. Don't be an ass. The class clearly needs a bit of tweaking to be competitive with paladin, there's no point in denying it. Decouple the healing bonus from wrath and put it on defiance, give warriors a 5 minute cooldown giving them 1000% damage done as healing, and add enhance foresight to be what it is now along with 20% parry. Done. Warriors might actually have a spot in high end raiding.

[AsbelLahnt]

I definitely see where you're coming from, and I've been behind that all the way. I am all for a tweak to the class, and happy that it's coming. I had seen way early in the posts that someone had said that infuriate was useless, along with seeing so many warriors just sucking in my world, and I wanted to get a mechanic out there that can be very useful.

[Tiggy]

The difference of the damage lost and the enmity modifier works off of different bases. While your damage reduction scales with leveling your enmity modifier on defiance doesn't. This is why level 50 PLD deals the same or more damage then warrior. This is also why Warriors (who stat all vit) are complaining they don't hold hate.

BTW - Enmity works as such:
Damage % (primary heal effect or inflicted) = Hate
Hate + Enmity mod = More hate
Damage + Minus enmity mod + enmity mod = Hate

In short. The greater your attack power the greater the loss of enmity. With defiance up and no strength stat your hate levels are the same as any dps while using enmity modifing moves.

My personal experience in the coil and in end game dungeons is that your assertion here is incorrect. I plainly get more hate from having Defiance up and I (as a full Vit war) have no problems keeping hate off our Relic+1 Monk and Bard. I'm not sure where you're getting these numbers from, but they must be coming from a poor tank.