Item duping is killing Crafters

[OptimalZedd]

you are too clever for me, and spend too much time arguing lol

go farm 27 potash and sells Vanya legs for 500k... you will get so much profit from it, cause u are all from harvard and know superior mechanics of life lol

Or u know, be totally crazy and sells potash at 40k x 27 straight ( well lets say 35k average) , without crafting ?

u guys are just fighting just to beeing fun , internet-winner, but cannot answer one most simple question of my thread

but at least , you making live the thread, thx

[OptimalZedd]

they overflooding the market, and price of every potash/peacock ore/etc.. is droping like hell

Many people on my server are farming philo to make their liviing

People will say its the demand&supply rule, but clearly there is something strange going on

Wait, wait, wait. Sorry, I missed this part earlier. PEOPLE ON YOUR SERVER ARE FARMING PHILOSOPHY TOMES TO MAKE THEIR LIVING AND YOU THINK THERE'S AN ITEM-DUPING SCHEME GOING ON TO JUSTIFY WHY THE PRICES ARE DROPPING ON ITEMS THAT SUDDENLY NO ONE IS PAYING FULL PRICE FOR EXCEPT YOU!?!?!?

you took things out of context, its just consequences. The main problem is not here. So why making lenghty post just to show at the end that you didnt understand anything ?

So now Mister Genius, try to answer that question ( the same question i keep asking AGAIN and AGAIN no counter-attacker of the thread is trying to explain) :

why selling all final item at same price around 500k ? since some use 9 , some 18 , some 27

Im not whining cause i dont make as much profit as before, of course some part of market gonna die etc..., thats the game

I just made that post so people can know there are such activities, SE has taken some actions and correcting the problem, but didnt ban the people that used this and are emptying their stock, which i find is a half-measure, they really need to be more efficient

After, if u think im just crying wolf. Fine, long life to the cheat !

[Grey_Cain]

you took things out of context, its just consequences. The main problem is not here. So why making lenghty post just to show at the end that you didnt understand anything ?

You made the context, and that is the only context you provided.

So now Mister Genius, try to answer that question ( the same question i keep asking AGAIN and AGAIN no counter-attacker of the thread is trying to explain) :



Im not whining cause i dont make as much profit as before, of course some part of market gonna die etc..., thats the game

I just made that post so people can know there are such activities, SE has taken some actions and correcting the problem, but didnt ban the people that used this and are emptying their stock, which i find is a half-measure, they really need to be more efficient

After, if u think im just crying wolf. Fine, long life to the cheat !

Right, sorry to mistake your attention span for something that exists. Here it is again in tl;dr format:

A person's reasons .... do not need to make sense to you or me.

weird situations do not make a rumor true.

report to SE and move on.

There is no counter-attack because your feeble attempt at an attack hardly counts as a slap-fight. Your entire idea is that someone has to be item-duping in order to be pushing down prices on materials and putting multiple different items with variable resource requirements up for the same price. What I am telling you is that neither of these things is a sign of item-duping! Nothing you have ever said, not even the most robust evidence you could find has shown any hint of a whiff of item-duping. You're passing on a rumor as if it was real and then blaming your market woes on the rumor without entertaining any idea whatsoever for other causes!

You outright dismiss the notions of tome over-farming that you yourself said was happening. You don't seem to consider gil sellers in your equations, or gil buyers for that matter. And straight up player insanity, the likes of which you're showing off quite well, also doesn't figure into your idea of market forces.

Making a post about item-duping that you can't even prove is happening does not let other people know about a problem. It just tells us that you're paranoid, and the more you fail to defend your point the more you look like you have no idea what's going on or what's happening.

You want to know why everything is going for 500k no matter how many tome mats are used? Fine. Here's some math for you. First, the variables:
C = Cost to obtain mats: 0.
T = Time required to obtain mats: Variable. Each mat requires the same amount of tomes, however, regardless of which one is bought.
Mp = Amount that buyers have shown they're willing to pay for mats: 35-40k, or 0 if they farm it themselves.
Ms = Amount of mats that are available for sale at any given time.
Mb = Amount that are being bought at that price: Unknown. Go look it up. There's a History button you can use to see how many are sold per day.
Mu = Amount that impatient people undercut the price for because they're not willing to wait 3 days: Enough to drive the prices down noticeably.
Ma = Amount of items needed to craft the item: 9-27.
Mc = Amount that buyers care about how many mats were involved in the creation of their gear: 0.
Gp = Price of gear as it is currently being sold for: 500k.

Now that all of that is out of the way. First, the Cost to create an item from mats (Cm):
Cm = Mp * Ma
This can go anywhere from 0 (all mats farmed) to 1080k. In 9 item increments, that is: 0k, 360k, 720k, 1080k.

In order to find the Premium on the cost (P) that buyers are willing to pay on items that require more mats:
P = (Cm - Gp) * Mc

Finally, the amount that sellers have decided is the final tally for what they think people will buy for (Sp):
Sp = P * (Mb/24 + (Mp - Mu)/Ms) + Gp

And there's your answer in math.

[Thunderz]

So what we learned is that ppl suck at economics in FFXIV and dump items on the wards super cheap

buyers market go

[Astarica]

There is a thing known as a sunk cost. If you already made something that uses 27 potash, you can't convert it back to 27 potash. Maybe the raw materials set you back 1 million gil but nobody cares about that and you can't get the raw material back, so you might have to sell it for 500K to get some of your money back as opposed to none of it back. This is why you really shouldn't try to craft 2 star stuff unless you're pretty sure there's a buyer out there.

[Bardo]

Proof that item dupers exist:
I saw someone selling a stack of Allagan Silver Pieces on the Market for 400 gil apiece.
They sell to vendor for 500 gil apiece, so this is obviously the work of a duper!
<3


(in case someone misses it, this was sarcasm)
Prices for Potash and other Philosophy mats vary quite wildly from one server to another.
Is it not possible that someone transferred servers and forgot to check prices before posting several items?
Or just as likely, that they didn't buy the potash but instead farmed them very quickly in a WP speedrun group and then undercut Vanya's prices that are based around potash prices in order to sell quickly?

[Eigi]

We came across almost the same exact circumstances as rainsford description, a guy server transferred to our server without a DoW / DoM class reaching 20 but has several crafting classes to 50, the thing is he has shit load of crafted philo items ( vanya silk, darksteel ingot etc etc) I'm not automatically saying he is a duper or a bug exploiter but to have an almost replica as the one rainsford describe is pretty disturbing. Here's the guy lodestone details. http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...racter/5336643

[Erathar]

we had some kind of weird issue on Famfrit with items selling at an extremely ridiculous price.

E.g : HQ items normally selling at 50-60k , sold by the same 2 guys ( not the retainers, I'm talking about the 2 guys having these retainers ) at 10-12k . ( Since this could mean nothing and that maybe those 2 guys just dont know anything about making money , i'll not give any lodestone links or names, still selling thing at 20-25% of the average price is either suspicious or ridiculous. ( And dont even think about buying them to sell them back at a higher price, they put a new set of items back at a ridiculously low price so you almost never sell lol )

[Sanctus]

People in this thread are throwing out terms that they really don't know much about such as sunk cost etc. It doesn't seem like anyone understands the concept of opportunity cost either, which is fundamental in terms of economics and accounting.

Definition of 'Opportunity Cost'
1. The cost of an alternative that must be forgone in order to pursue a certain action. Put another way, the benefits you could have received by taking an alternative action.

If you buy potash for 125 Philo stones, your cost for the potash is not 0, it is the cost that you could have sold them for, depending on server, roughly 35-40k. You forego selling your potash at 35k by turning into a finished product. People who plug in a cost of 0 on their potash and equivalent items are hurting everyone including themselves. You learn this stuff in accounting 101 people...

[Astarica]

People really don't seem to get that valuation of an item changes in a world with often drastic changes. One would expect the value of 2 star items to go way down when Crystal Tower comes out (presumably ilvl 80 gear that's easier to access than Coil). Therefore, while you're making this stuff, you always have patch 2.1 looming heavily over your shoulders. It is obvious that 2 star stuff do not move in great quantities. Suppose you know that between now and 2.1 there are 10 more possible sales of some 2 star item at 1 million gil. Are you really confident you'd be the one to snag one of those sales when there are many crafters around? Of course, you don't even know if there are still 10 buyers out there until the next patch, so there's nothing wrong with simply selling at a significant discount if you think you stand a good chance of hitting all the remaining 2 star sales prior to the next patch.