Dragoon vs Lancer, is there a secret benefit?

[Lbdizzle]

The only advantage you'd have on LNC...

The point in this section would stop me from putting a LNC in coil. I would not be looking to create a LNC that was a tank. I would want to maximize the dps, I am guessing that would be from the Twintania drop that you mentioned (which I have no clue what that is or how I would try to get it). My point is that, with all the crit help from abilities off GCD, I was theorizing with max gear (allagan, or allagan hero mix) that they could out or match the dps of a DRG. If the DRG will be better with max gear then what about sacrificing the DEF/MDEF for a specialized set, say like max skill speed? With the skill speed maxed and the extra crit abilities could a LNC stand a chance? not in coil, but for like a farming AK/WP or other dungeons. If not in the skill speed set, what about a crit set? Then the LNC could have many different skills beside the crit ones, just throwing thoughts out of my head at the situation.

[Lbdizzle]

Everything WAR does is related to Defiance. Defiance reduces damage by 25%, meaning you won't be using it when you want to deal damage. The point of using MRD is to have a super-durable DPS -- you aren't really tanking with it.

My point on this is that as a MRD you still have to que up as a tank. The only way around that would be to have another PAL or WAR/MRD and make your own party. I have many friends but can't always get a group and need to pub que sometimes; however I like the idea, and that is what I will be going for, durable dps, but I would rather be the main tank who does the dps. If a MRD is not the main tank, why not just get a MNK or DRG?

[xyaie]

from the rotation reborn thread

btw (ill admit ive only read a bit of this thread) there is a "hidden" benefit of 20 str for equipping the dragoon soul

Quote Originally Posted by EasymodeX View Post
For most rotations the potency-per-second actually dropped by using Straight Shot, because the buff is actually pretty weak, the attack itself is weak (140, so you need to gain over 60 potency from the buff to match your filler to break even), and using it caused a loss of uptime of other buffs (like Heavy Thrust).

Even if we assume the same PPS for the "LNC" (+SS) and "DRG" rotations, take the next step:

A LNC with 450 STR has a potency coefficient of 126.0. A DRG with 470 has a coefficient of 130.6. That's roughly a 3.7% increase in damage from the STR. Ref: http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=179

The Raging Strikes buff is up for 20/180 = 11% of the time, and adds 20% damage. That's +2.222% average damage.

DRG STR bonus > Raging Strikes (although Raging Strikes is still good for burst damage situations)

Straight Shot is a wash at best (or a DPS loss at worst).

The net result is that the DPS of a DRG is going to be ahead 0-2% of the DPS of a LNC using straight shot ... without counting jumps. Jumps aren't the best DPS increasers in the world, but they do increase DPS.

Edit: Jumps add in the general ballpark of 4% total damage.

[Aratak]

Depending on how buffs interact with each other in this game, there might be some gain you get from Raging Strikes and possibly also Straight Shot (as initial attack for a burstphase).

As DRG it is beneficial to use a damagebuff in conjunction with the piercing resistance debuff. Assuming both buffs increase damage by an factor 1.1 you would get 1.21 (>1.2) when using both buffs combined.
The LNC would be able to set up some crazy burstphases with overlapping buffs, assuming they are all 'compatible' in the way described. Of course skillspeed could really shine in those phases since the applications of buffs (GCD and offGCD) come in a higher frequenzy and an additional attack could fit in the timewindow.
Stealing aggro while not having the backward jump might get problematic however. Blood Bath, defensive CD and a short 'break' using Physique might help then.

On another note:
Having access to 4 different DOT attacks opens up many possible rotations a LNC could come up with.

[EasymodeX]

The geometric gains from Raging Strikes synergizing with other buffs could possibly optimistically make up ~1-2% total damage.

Jumps and gear issues > even-ish dps.

[Lbdizzle]

Stealing aggro while not having the backward jump might get problematic however.

To this I say grab Quelling strikes

[Themis]

Venomous bite = DOT that if it crits it might reset recast time

I will just add that this isn't correct. I'm guessing you took the tooltip from XIVDB which uses the text that is shown for a Lv50 Archer. In the Lv50 Archer's case, Venomous Bite (and also Windbite) can (50% chance) reset the recast of Bloodletter when either one crits. Bloodletter, unfortunately, is exclusive to Archer, meaning that only Archer gets this benefit. Venomous Bite is simply a DoT for Lancer.

[NefGP]

I like where your heads at but Maurader is more viable doing this over Lancer over the ridiculous damage AND tanking you can do.

My friends and I PLD/MRD/BRD/WHM WP and AK all the time with ridiculous amounts of success and damage

Although I see nothing wrong with your logic I just think you get more bang for your buck in MRD

Yeah MRD is pretty beefy since it retains access to Raging Strikes and Straight Shot, which puts damage through the roof. I imagine that MRD will also end up being the base class for DRK and take further advantage of this.

[Bardo]

As others have said, you get a STR bonus when you equip the DRG soulstone.
At 50, that STR bonus out-weighs any of the cross class skills you could pick up by staying LNC.

[Kasandaro]

Two passing thoughts:

* Cure/Physick are so strongly tied to the MND stat that they're downright laughable on a non-DoM job. Even GLD who get access don't use it, since the return is so horrible. (Go check the Tank forum. It's really that bad.)
* Eye for an Eye can't be cast on self, only another party member (including pets). It would be incredibly situational, as much as Raise.