Dragoon vs Lancer, is there a secret benefit?

[Lbdizzle]

The big sticking point is the weapon level. Unless you somehow get your hands on a Twintania drop, you're invariably hurting yourself. That said, DRG will outdamage LNC even after all cross-class abilities are accounted (only Raging Strikes is actually worth counting). You're going to have considerably lower DPS with LNC after you account for the lower weapon level. You have a bunch of traited notes in your work here as well. Traits do not carry over -- Raging Strikes has a 180s cooldown, Virus only affects STR and DEX, Mantra is 5% instead of 20% boost (lol), et cetera.

Ahh thank you for letting me know that. When gathering these definitions I was not aware that the traits were included I will edit that out.

[Lbdizzle]

The only advantage you'd have on LNC...

The point in this section would stop me from putting a LNC in coil. I would not be looking to create a LNC that was a tank. I would want to maximize the dps, I am guessing that would be from the Twintania drop that you mentioned (which I have no clue what that is or how I would try to get it). My point is that, with all the crit help from abilities off GCD, I was theorizing with max gear (allagan, or allagan hero mix) that they could out or match the dps of a DRG. If the DRG will be better with max gear then what about sacrificing the DEF/MDEF for a specialized set, say like max skill speed? With the skill speed maxed and the extra crit abilities could a LNC stand a chance? not in coil, but for like a farming AK/WP or other dungeons. If not in the skill speed set, what about a crit set? Then the LNC could have many different skills beside the crit ones, just throwing thoughts out of my head at the situation.

[Lbdizzle]

Everything WAR does is related to Defiance. Defiance reduces damage by 25%, meaning you won't be using it when you want to deal damage. The point of using MRD is to have a super-durable DPS -- you aren't really tanking with it.

My point on this is that as a MRD you still have to que up as a tank. The only way around that would be to have another PAL or WAR/MRD and make your own party. I have many friends but can't always get a group and need to pub que sometimes; however I like the idea, and that is what I will be going for, durable dps, but I would rather be the main tank who does the dps. If a MRD is not the main tank, why not just get a MNK or DRG?

[Whiz]

Why do people even make fantasy threads like this w/o doing 0 research.... bored at work? Op doesn't even know what "coil" is or where alligan drops are from after that its just /thread.

[xyaie]

from the rotation reborn thread

btw (ill admit ive only read a bit of this thread) there is a "hidden" benefit of 20 str for equipping the dragoon soul

Quote Originally Posted by EasymodeX View Post
For most rotations the potency-per-second actually dropped by using Straight Shot, because the buff is actually pretty weak, the attack itself is weak (140, so you need to gain over 60 potency from the buff to match your filler to break even), and using it caused a loss of uptime of other buffs (like Heavy Thrust).

Even if we assume the same PPS for the "LNC" (+SS) and "DRG" rotations, take the next step:

A LNC with 450 STR has a potency coefficient of 126.0. A DRG with 470 has a coefficient of 130.6. That's roughly a 3.7% increase in damage from the STR. Ref: http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=179

The Raging Strikes buff is up for 20/180 = 11% of the time, and adds 20% damage. That's +2.222% average damage.

DRG STR bonus > Raging Strikes (although Raging Strikes is still good for burst damage situations)

Straight Shot is a wash at best (or a DPS loss at worst).

The net result is that the DPS of a DRG is going to be ahead 0-2% of the DPS of a LNC using straight shot ... without counting jumps. Jumps aren't the best DPS increasers in the world, but they do increase DPS.

Edit: Jumps add in the general ballpark of 4% total damage.

[Aratak]

Depending on how buffs interact with each other in this game, there might be some gain you get from Raging Strikes and possibly also Straight Shot (as initial attack for a burstphase).

As DRG it is beneficial to use a damagebuff in conjunction with the piercing resistance debuff. Assuming both buffs increase damage by an factor 1.1 you would get 1.21 (>1.2) when using both buffs combined.
The LNC would be able to set up some crazy burstphases with overlapping buffs, assuming they are all 'compatible' in the way described. Of course skillspeed could really shine in those phases since the applications of buffs (GCD and offGCD) come in a higher frequenzy and an additional attack could fit in the timewindow.
Stealing aggro while not having the backward jump might get problematic however. Blood Bath, defensive CD and a short 'break' using Physique might help then.

On another note:
Having access to 4 different DOT attacks opens up many possible rotations a LNC could come up with.

[Lbdizzle]

Stealing aggro while not having the backward jump might get problematic however.

To this I say grab Quelling strikes

[EasymodeX]

The geometric gains from Raging Strikes synergizing with other buffs could possibly optimistically make up ~1-2% total damage.

Jumps and gear issues > even-ish dps.

[Themis]

Venomous bite = DOT that if it crits it might reset recast time

I will just add that this isn't correct. I'm guessing you took the tooltip from XIVDB which uses the text that is shown for a Lv50 Archer. In the Lv50 Archer's case, Venomous Bite (and also Windbite) can (50% chance) reset the recast of Bloodletter when either one crits. Bloodletter, unfortunately, is exclusive to Archer, meaning that only Archer gets this benefit. Venomous Bite is simply a DoT for Lancer.

[Lbdizzle]

I will just add that this isn't correct. I'm guessing you took the tooltip from XIVDB which uses the text that is shown for a Lv50 Archer. In the Lv50 Archer's case, Venomous Bite (and also Windbite) can (50% chance) reset the recast of Bloodletter when either one crits. Bloodletter, unfortunately, is exclusive to Archer, meaning that only Archer gets this benefit. Venomous Bite is simply a DoT for Lancer.

Ahh another helpful hint. Thanks for the fix, my mistake. XIVDB is one of my favorite sites. I will fix that.