Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW

[Duelle]

I just want concepts and elements of the world design

You mean that zones were needlessly barren, making it seem that the only places that had an actual semblance of civilization were the three starter cities, Jeuno and the outlands towns of Mhaura and Selbina? I actually hated that sort of design because it took away what little credibility the three cities had.

how lore/quests where presented in, what I would argue, a more natural and open way.

Considering quests in FFXI were less rewarding than anything I've ever seen in an MMO outside of Lineage II, that's not something to really aspire for. XI's sidequests were filler to the main story (as opposed to here, where we are given quests more to help establish setting). We could ask for something totally unrelated (like the Obsidian Arrow quesline), but we already have that in the form of Hildibrand. We could use some more filler quests, I guess.

[Vandark]

Considering quests in FFXI were less rewarding than anything I've ever seen in an MMO outside of Lineage II, that's not something to really aspire for. XI's sidequests were filler to the main story (as opposed to here, where we are given quests more to help establish setting). We could ask for something totally unrelated (like the Obsidian Arrow quesline), but we already have that in the form of Hildibrand. We could use some more filler quests, I guess.

FFXIV's quests in a nut shell

Quest type 1 - Run from A to B talk to B run from B to C talk to C run back to A -> Done
Quest type 2 - Kill these monsters that are easy pray at best run back to A -> Done
Quest type 3 - Run from A to B do an emote Run back to A -> Done
Quest type 4 - Do this dungeon

Leve type 1 -> Run to Leve monsters kill them run back -> Done
Leve type 2 -> Escort by waving at this npc - Done

Main Story Quests, basically the same as the first quest list despite cut scenes and lots of dialog.

My opinion on the quest system in MMO's.
All WoW clones share this same lame pattern of quests, it's no less grindy than partying really except it's tedious, it's slower paced than partying or grinding mobs and much less enjoyable because 90% of the content is done by yourself.

--

At least in FFXI the quests involved large scale objectives that required a large team, zones with a sense of danger and some really interactive boss fights.
FFXI's quests made you go on epic adventures and was always for a purpose like unlocking access to new areas or advancing/progressing threw the actual game itself, FFXIV is child's play.
It just depends what your after, are you after an adventure or are you after a face book game?

I felt like the idea of Quests fit better into XI, that XI had it right, because XI eliminated the pointless side of questing which is to level through quests and actually made the quest system a form of unlocking or gaining access to areas, transport or a means of progression within the world. The quests in XI although challenging at times always left a feeling of reward, satisfaction and a memory of the experience.

XI was an experience, XIV is just another wow clone.

What is a WoW clone, a game thats like WoW right?

Not exactly, a WoW clone from what I can see consists of taking small parts from WoW and trying to make it new.

What is bad about this?
Everything!
-They always take the same parts from WoW that people see in every game now and it's seriously getting old.
-They try to revolve there entire game around these small parts that they have taken from WoW creating a very basic world that feels and plays like child play with very little to offer players.
"Theme park MMO"

VS the old FFXI -> Real MMO experience.

[Gramul]

You mean that zones were needlessly barren, making it seem that the only places that had an actual semblance of civilization were the three starter cities, Jeuno and the outlands towns of Mhaura and Selbina? I actually hated that sort of design because it took away what little credibility the three cities had.

More in the sense that they where dangerous to explore, but there where hidden segments, caves, dungeons, and groves that encouraged you to do so. And most of the time you could do so freely, without having to wait for a full party to join in a timed instance. XIV's environments are beautiful, but there's really not much to them.

Considering quests in FFXI were less rewarding than anything I've ever seen in an MMO outside of Lineage II, that's not something to really aspire for.

I personally could not give a single rats ass about the rewards from quests. I liked XI's quests because they where engaging and varied. I enjoyed playing them. They very rarely felt like a chore.
The journey actually was more important than the destination.

[Doo]

The journey actually was more important than the destination.

The players that enjoy FFXI probably went through something like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARghlVjBab0

While FFXIV makes you feel like you're at a drive thru at McDonalds.


And the complexity of it all

http://www.wilddragonchase.com/ffxi/NewSkillchain1.png

vs the simplicity of FFXIV.

I enjoy FFXIV for what it is but it could of been so much more if they had built on FFXI while taking away the long grinds. Instead we are here arguing with WoW fans who want FFXIV to cater to them because WoW is the greatest mmo ever. Oh yeah and players that sat in Jueno all day with LFG sign up because they weren't social enough or couldn't find players to form a static.

*Metal Gear Solid 4*
MMOs have changed, now players want mmos to be solo games and everything put in instances,
MMOs have changed, it's no longer about the journey but how much loot I can get asap.,
yadda yadda yadda

[Duelle]

More in the sense that they where dangerous to explore, but there where hidden segments, caves, dungeons, and groves that encouraged you to do so. And most of the time you could do so freely, without having to wait for a full party to join in a timed instance. XIV's environments are beautiful, but there's really not much to them.

There are vistas and caves in Eorzea. And there are things not marked on your map. There is also efficiency in how the areas are designed, which isn't a bad thing. A lot of the areas are connected to quests or events, and that's not a bad thing either; instead it makes the locales on the map significant.

I personally could not give a single rats ass about the rewards from quests. I liked XI's quests because they where engaging and varied. I enjoyed playing them. They very rarely felt like a chore.

And yet by design those were the same as the abhorred fetch/kill mob/speak to someone quests. Unless you live in some paralell universe where repeatedly bringing stones to Chamama, farming a needle in Quicksand Caves for the Star Onion Brigade, killing Two-Horn the Savage and trading food to Rycharde is somehow different from fighting off mercs hired to put up eviction notices, finding U'kahzuna after she was captured by the A'maal ja, helping a botanist study a dead gobbue, and yes, even getting tea leaves for Tataru. And I managed to derive more sense of purpose from the latter than the former.

The journey actually was more important than the destination.

If the journey was as important as you claim it was, the playerbase would not have been in as big a rush to level cap as they were. There's a reason I've mentioned before that even though FFXI was not designed to be a rat race, the players turned it into one anyways. As that is the nature of MMOs, I'd rather the design keep the rat race in mind instead of creating as many inconveniences as it can to try to deter something that is unevitable and unstopable.

FFXI had you jumping through zones and after they added all the expansions there was a large verity of camping spots which made it interesting

Right. It's not like the progression for leveling was limited to Dunes => Qufim => Kazam => Altepa => Crawler's Next => Altepa Again => Boyahda Tree => etc. Oh wait, it was!

The moment you mentioned anything that was off the tracks people would either leave, argue to not go there or mysteriously DC. And god save you if you had a princess bard or red mage in your group.

expansions

You mean Bibiki Bay (one zone out of an entire expansion), which was part of the leveling on rails experience (replacing, to my recollection, Labyrinth of Onzozo) until TAU zones came out and made EVERYTHING from the 50-ish range to 75 obsolete between Sanction's exp bonus and the emergence of TP burns.

[Peptaru]

Right. It's not like the progression for leveling was limited to Dunes => Qufim => Kazam => Altepa => Crawler's Next => Altepa Again => Boyahda Tree => etc. Oh wait, it was!

You forgot the part where they said that the good players new all the different xp spots and the party set up required for them. You listed all the scrub camps so I'm going on a limb to guess what kind of XI player you would have been.... Only one of the spots you listed was a good one, a shiny nickel if you can guess which one.

[Duelle]

You forgot the part where they said that the good players new all the different xp spots and the party set up required for them. You listed all the scrub camps so I'm going on a limb to guess what kind of XI player you would have been...

I'll save you the effort. I was a melee Red Mage, I didn't like Ninja or Utsusemi so I never leveled it, I hated gear swaps because a character blinking in and out of existence looked stupid, and liked subbing WAR on my DRK. Insult away.

The consensus and jokes about killing crabs for 40 levels exists for a reason. You can try to pretend otherwise, but this is what leveling was in FFXI. A majority of the zones went to waste because parties wanted to fight stuff that was easy to kill (the fact the devs purposely designed some mobs to be a pain to fight didn't help). It's also why TP burning became a thing as quickly as it did after TAU came out. It was just easier to spam weapon skills with no skillchain and f*ck black mages or summoners because max exp/hour. This wasn't an isolated thing that 2% of the playerbase did. It was widespread, and for a reason.

[Peptaru]

Stuff.

You are among the most negative posters on this forum, especially when stuff is different from how you remember it. . . I'm not going to insult you for playing how you wanted to play, but I will point out that your unwillingness to play any way but the one you wanted, no matter what it did to a group dynamic, was petty. Like I said, you listed all the scrub camps, all those melee only, no SC, max xp per hour players were just that - scrubs. They are the people loving XIV now.

And blms got their comeuppance because they were the ones with chain 400 in sea that melee were not allowed to attend, and MB parties in the tree or in the tunnel that melee weren't allowed to attend... the best melee could do at the time was grind weapons and pretend it was acceptable.

Everyone got screwed over the course of the game at one point or another, except Samurai... SE has a hard on for that job.

[Magis]

There are vistas and caves in Eorzea. And there are things not marked on your map

Vistas (he didn't mention that), yeah sure... but what caves? Do you mean the small corridors that connects two parts of the same zone together? Like in Eastern Thanalan or in Coerthas?

I think he was talking about the cave systems like under La Theine or King Ranperre's Tomb, which twisted and winded into other rooms or zones, not like the cave that connected Qufim and Jueno.

If the journey was as important as you claim it was, the playerbase would not have been in as big a rush to level cap as they were. There's a reason I've mentioned before that even though FFXI was not designed to be a rat race, the players turned it into one anyways. As that is the nature of MMOs, I'd rather the design keep the rat race in mind instead of creating as many inconveniences as it can to try to deter something that is unevitable and unstopable.

Seems more of the ease of leveling rather than the playerbase. People would still play long hours or try to get into a max xp lvl party in XI to get to 75 asap as well, however the game still slowed the pace down so that you did more during the journey.

Right. It's not like the progression for leveling was limited to Dunes => Qufim => Kazam => Altepa => Crawler's Next => Altepa Again => Boyahda Tree => etc. Oh wait, it was!

Garlaige Citidel, Santuary of Zi'tah, Gusgen Mines, Korroloka Tunnel, to name a few?

[Vandark]

Right. It's not like the progression for leveling was limited to Dunes => Qufim => Kazam => Altepa => Crawler's Next => Altepa Again => Boyahda Tree => etc. Oh wait, it was!

PFFFFFFFFFFFT, No it wasn't

You forgot the part where they said that the good players new all the different xp spots and the party set up required for them. You listed all the scrub camps so I'm going on a limb to guess what kind of XI player you would have been.... Only one of the spots you listed was a good one, a shiny nickel if you can guess which one.

Indeed

o.o You're on Siren too? Small world lol

Yeah man if you still play add me as friend if you want, Vandark is still my XI character.