Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW

[Atheena]

I have a really hard time believing it because millions of players have spent money for hardware to run WoW. I actually get better FPS on my rig in this game than I do in WoW. For 25 man raiding, in particular, you really need a strong PC. I'd also like to point out that this is what, month 4 of this game? We got some content out of order (Coils coming out before CT) and they're gradually working on increasing dungeon content and adding in things like Treasure Maps and Dailies (both of which have been a lot of fun - if not the most fun - I've had with this patch). Things are going to get better, but it's also going to take some time.

Your point is nill because by time wow really got popular PC's Became very cheap! You could spend around 600 usd to play it! Thats over 400 off vs the thousands needed to play FFXI! Again I'm not talking just raid content! MMO's need to Evolve past the HUB MMO'ing! MMO's need both casual and hardcore content! We need steady PvP both Open and Arena based, Player ran economy, something that gives us a sense of actually afraid to lose from our char, Open world bosses, Open world Dungeons, Epic quests, and various other things. Even the Mighty World of Warcraft has lost millions upon millions subscribers even Me.

Dallies really just a way to grind faster and Treasure maps are a joke and is just a russian roulette game!

If you get more FPS in this game then wow then something is wrong on your PC end! I run this game @ a steady 85~ FPS ( A build less than 2 months old Based on AMD Parts 290 GPU with custom cooling ) and Im sure if I was still playing WoW I would be in the hundreds with FRAPS!

[Atheena]

WildStar is a game that will be making headlines but too bad it uses WoW's graphics too much! Sigh I guess this was the last MMO for me. I will wait till the 2.2 patch drops and see if I will ever come back to the game!

[Vandark]

You've told me that I'm stupid,

Not the words I used

You have absolutely nothing to back that up. ARR has - by SE's own words - twice the number of subs FFXI ever had even at the peak of its popularity.

Your popularity argument has nothing to do with the topic, this isn't a debate about FFXI's popularity VS ARR's popularity it's a debate about bringing back some Xi related content for the player base which seeks this gameplay and have enjoyed it for more 10 years+. Those who argue FFXI wasn't successful are not stating facts.

There's nothing to indicate that, so long as SE keeps its promises about future content and doesn't allow things to stagnate, the game won't continue to improve.

promises about future content were already broken thats why I'm here talking about it.

This game isn't World of Warcraft. And no matter how many times you and your cronies repeat this hilarious lie, it isn't going to magically become true.

It's not WoW, I never said it's WoW, how ever the fact is it's progression is still entirely built around similar and in some cases the same ideas WoW has used and other games like it used. Not much about it remains different to other MMO's.

And you have, in the same post where you are saying I'm exaggerating, keep repeating the line that somehow FFXIV has "become World of Warcraft." Who the hell is exaggerating here?

0.0 I never said ARR has become world of warcraft, infact I said just because it has similarities to wow doesn't make it WoW-2. That means I don't think it's WoW-2 wtf are you on about exactly? Please stop exaggerating and twisting things your clearly the one being illogical here but thats ok I am not trying to convince you of anything because you clearly can't see this from any other side other than your own.

This is so utterly hilarious. XI has never - ever - even come close to the popularity of WoW. At its peak, XI never had more than 500k subscriptions. WoW had 15 million. Even now, having dropped to about half that, WoW has 7.7 million subscribers. That's still 15 times the number of subscribers that XI had at its peak.

Nah derrr, tell me something I don't know, it doesn't make what I said any less true those were the two best games at the time and I chose XI coz I actually disliked and still dislike WoW. Final Fantasy was my choice and thats what I still want to play Final Fantasy, not World Of Wart-assy.

Where are you getting the information about this? Citation needed, please. SE hasn't released any subscription information recently, and I certainly haven't seen anything to indicate that your information is correct.

If you didn't notice the drop in subs yourself then you weren't paying much attention to detail. Discover it for yourself, I just personally know many people who quit for this reason and there are plenty of people complaining about it on the internet. I've even seen alot of people unsubed on these very forums for reasons related to the new content.

Unless massive changes are made to ESO between last month and its release in April, it is in no way going to be a threat to any MMO. Seriously...to any MMO. It's that bad.

There is something for everyone I guess, I honestly haven't dove that deep into those games ARR is the game I have been hopefull for since the first alpha stages of 1.0.
Yes I've been around hopeful this long, what exactly are you hopeing for, what is it you want the game to have content wise, another new dungeon?
How about another dungeon gear set that you receive threw a dayly point system that replaces your old one with 2 extra stats?

What exactly is the point in the conflicting opinions you have when you don't even attempt to be constructive about it?

All your doing is bashing XI with a stick, I'm curious what don't you like excludeing the difficulty about the content XI had to offer?
For those who enjoyed the game nothing could be more thrilling that game used to make my heart race with excitement.

If it was done in a way that doesn't effect the casual gamer what exactly do you have against that?

[LiadansWhisper]

Your popularity argument has nothing to do with the topic, this isn't a debate about FFXI's popularity VS ARR's popularity it's a debate about bringing back some Xi related content for the player base which seeks this gameplay and have enjoyed it for more 10 years+. Those who argue FFXI wasn't successful are not stating facts.

You and others have made the statement that this game is "too similar to WoW," and that it should be "more similar to XI." But WoW is a much more popular game, and XI has never enjoyed the success that WoW has (or brought in the kind of money WoW has). My point about the popularity of each game is valid - because there is no reason whatsoever for SE to scrap a model that is currently making the money hand over fist to a far, far less popular model, which is what you seem to be advocating for.

promises about future content were already broken thats why I'm here talking about it.

Citation needed.

It's not WoW, I never said it's WoW, how ever the fact is it's progression is still entirely built around similar and in some cases the same ideas WoW has used and other games like it used. Not much about it remains different to other MMO's.

So when you said, " we never wanted the game to become world of warcraft we played Final Fantasy because we wanted something different," you were just joking? The entire crux of the arguments in this thread have been, "FFXIV is too similar to WoW" or "FFXIV is a WoW-clone." But you are trying to claim now that it's not WoW? I mean, seriously, pick one. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

0.0 I never said ARR has become world of warcraft, infact I said just because it has similarities to wow doesn't make it WoW-2. That means I don't think it's WoW-2 wtf are you on about exactly? Please stop exaggerating and twisting things your clearly the one being illogical here but thats ok I am not trying to convince you of anything because you clearly can't see this from any other side other than your own.

You just now said that, but I guess when you said, "we never wanted the game to become world of warcraft we played Final Fantasy because we wanted something different," you were just confused.

No shit, tell me something I don't know, it doesn't make what I said any less true those were the two best games at the time and I chose XI coz I actually disliked and still dislike WoW. Final Fantasy was my choice and thats what I still want to play Final Fantasy, not World Of Wart-assy.

Rift and SWTOR have both exceeded the popularity of XI, as well. I still don't see why SE should return to a model that makes it far less money. It makes no business sense.

If you didn't notice the drop in subs yourself then you weren't paying much attention to detail. Discover it for yourself, I just personally know many people who quit for this reason and there are plenty of people bitching about it on the internet. I've even seen alot of people unsubed on these very forums for reasons related to the new content.

You can't base subscription numbers off your own personal observations. First, you don't actually know that people you stopped noticing cancelled their subscriptions - you are assuming that they did, but they very well may have left their subscriptions in place. Second, you don't even know that they stopped playing at all. They may be playing at times that don't mesh with yours, or with people who aren't your people, or in areas you don't go in. There's literally no way for you to know. Finally, you do not know what the subscription numbers are like overall. No one does - because we're not SE and we don't have access to that information. It doesn't matter how many people you personally know who quit, because that's just an anecdote. What matters is what the actual numbers are, and you don't have access to that information and are, as a result, talking out of your backside.

What exactly is the point in the conflicting opinions you have when you don't even attempt to be constructive about it?

What's constructive about, "This isn't the game that I really loved a long while ago, and it should be that game because I don't like how "WoW-like" this game I'm currently paying for is. Make it more like the game I quit to come play this one"???? Because I'm not seeing a lot of constructive thought in any of your posts.

If it was done in a way that dosn't effect the casual gamer what exactly do you have against that?

While I do speak up for the casual gamer quite a bit, I haven't been a casual gamer in a long time. I care because I don't want to deal with that kind of grindfest. It would utterly kill my interest in this game.

I also don't believe that anything you're proposing (at least, what little I could figure out you were proposing beyond "make this game XI") could actually be put in place without affecting the majority of players.

[Vandark]

You do not know what the subscription numbers are like overall. No one does - because we're not SE and we don't have access to that information.

Yes it's been my personal observation, I'm not saying I know the exact numbers I didn't claim to know the exact numbers but I have read in the past from my knowledge that XI had over 2mil subs and online I read ARR only had 1.7mil subs so that is where I got that belief from and by playing both games religiously from there very birth to their dyeing days.

It doesn't matter how many people you personally know who quit, because that's just an anecdote. What matters is what the actual numbers are, and you don't have access to that information and are, as a result, talking out of your backside.

Yet I constantly talk to others about it and most agree with me, I'm not talking out my ass it's my theory as to why less people are playing and I have good reason to believe it's why, it's always been debated as a problem with the game even in ARR's earliest stages and the subject still remains. Could it be because it is a problem?

WOW REALLY HOLLY SH@T I NEVER EVEN THOUGHT OF THAT. (Epic sarcasm here)

So when you said, " we never wanted the game to become world of warcraft we played Final Fantasy because we wanted something different," you were just joking? The entire crux of the arguments in this thread have been, "FFXIV is too similar to WoW" or "FFXIV is a WoW-clone." But you are trying to claim now that it's not WoW? I mean, seriously, pick one. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

/Sigh, it's too close to being like WoW and isn't enough like it's previous titles the ones we enjoyed that doesn't mean it's WoW just that it's too much like wow to the point where we no longer enjoy it as much as we used to and miss the old content we liked.

You just now said that, but I guess when you said, "we never wanted the game to become world of warcraft we played Final Fantasy because we wanted something different," you were just confused.

It's too much like WoW, simple as that. I didn't say I think it's WoW-2 like you stated get over yourself. Where are your real arguments, the only arguments you keep crying out are about popularity and subscription numbers yet no one is suggesting the WoW like content be removed so your argument about content to do with previous FF-MMO-titles being re introduced effecting the subs is twisted and illogical.

Rift and SWTOR have both exceeded the popularity of XI, as well. I still don't see why SE should return to a model that makes it far less money. It makes no business sense.

Yea at XI's peek but XI's kept roleing in monthly subs since 2002. Those so called more popular games were forced to go the FTP model because of there massive drops, they were short lived is that really what you want ARR to become another short lived title?

What's constructive about, "This isn't the game that I really loved a long while ago, and it should be that game because I don't like how "WoW-like" this game I'm currently paying for is. Make it more like the game I quit to come play this one"???? Because I'm not seeing a lot of constructive thought in any of your posts.

Ok everyone I encourage you to read my posts, there is plenty of constructive feedback and nothing in this paragraph of hers was in my words. It is simply how she has chosen to interprate it.

While I do speak up for the casual gamer quite a bit, I haven't been a casual gamer in a long time. I care because I don't want to deal with that kind of grindfest. It would utterly kill my interest in this game.

Huh? Excuse me but FFXIV ARR is a huge grindfest as it is now all you do is repeat the same dungeons over and over again and I've said many times that the content I want has to do with end game content and nothing to do with long winded grinding.
The only mention I made about something non end game was that I preferred the old exp party system it actually felt less grindy to me than the current Fate system at least I was able to socialise with others, it made the experience more enjoyable for me. FF14 ARR in 1,23 was actually faster and less grindy as far as leveling went.

I also don't believe that anything you're proposing (at least, what little I could figure out you were proposing beyond "make this game XI") could actually be put in place without affecting the majority of players.

Well think about it, here I'll give some exsamples.

BCNM in ARR -> They could make BCNM drops the same as XI dropping off enemies in both fates and around the outside world. They could make the amount of BCNM's needed and the drop rates alot easier for everyone so it's more casual than it was in XI. BCNM's - KSNM type instances could still have epic battles so it's a bit of a challenge but getting the items to enter could be nerved to suit casuals.

The possible gear drops and crafting items would give the game some more life and verity and they could make the equipment no better than other 90 gear so it's all raited the same just obtained in a different way.

The things that made XI painful were all due to how long winded it was, if you eliminate that aspect of it plenty of the content could be transformed to suit casual gamers. All I want is more options, I grow tired of the same thing over and over again dungeons and raids just aren't my style.

-NM's - In XI the spawn times were too great, in FFXIV they could eliminate the spawn times completely and make the NM's a pop'ed instance for the end game fights.
The pop items for these large end game NM's could drop off smaller NM's that have really low spawn times of like 5mins or something. Sounds casual to me it just means you need a group for it, thats not that hard. They could make the small NM's soloable so people could collect there own pop sets.

If you just want to keep doing your dungeons and raiding then thats what you would continue to do and those who want to hunt NM's, craft gear, farm up items for pop instances Would at least have the option of doing so. Other wise the player base who longs for this kind of content will get over being hopeful, grow tired and bored of ARR then leave.

[Arkune]

:-\ The entire reason I brought up the success of XI vs. ARR is that the people are wanting ARR to become XI-2. :-\

Well it doesnt really make sense to talk with you on this Topic, because all u wanna "read" is what you wanna "read", neither Vandark or me or anyoneelse want to make this game into a XI-2 HD Version or a "Grind"Fest.

We were talking about aspects they could bring up in this game, all your arguments against our Ideas are the numbers of subbings. But here is the truth, you are not working for SE so you dont even know if the numbers are correct at all.

Since you said None of my 3 Points (why this game wasnt as popular) i am asking you a question

Q: Are you going to Play a MMORPG with a pay2play model which is only in a language aviable which u CANT understand?

For my part, i wouldnt.

When XI came out i spended alot of Money to run XI on max. Setups and when i tried WoW, my PC were over Powered for this game. So the Point with the Hardware which someone mentioned seems legit to me.

Maybe you are lucky on your Server and you have a FC where everyone can enjoy the game how it is, so you dont see how much People unsubbing this game, all you can do is assuming like we do, well i can tell you that ALOT Players in our FC already quittet the game due the fact (ill tell you what they told us) ist Feeling like WoW in the most Parts.

but hell, i couldnt care less what you think or not.

For my Part, i enjoy Big Raids in a open World with my LS/FC (and not Randoms), i am not talking for 21-24 hours Claim spawn HNMs, something like Sky/Sea or Dynamis (which was instanced but it was a town you invaded)

I want that crafters are a part of Endgame, something like XI had with Cursed Equipment and Bosses drop Abjurations so ist a WIN:WIN Situation for all of the Players.

I know Players they came to XIV 1.0 because tanaka said that crafting should be involved into the game and should be a bigger part of they game as usually, with Yoshis raise and his words he just kicked some Players in the Nuts and made them quit aswell.

But back to your Argument Base: Sure it has alot of subbings now, but this game isnt unique enough that it cant be replaced.

[Edellis]

I really want to read some of these posts and make an opinion. Too much work.

Protip: saying "dont make this game like WoW" is utterly pointless to any developer no matter how you spin it. Maybe you should be more specific and less general.

[Dale]

Only in the sense that is has the Final Fantasy name and it is an MMO. In that context it is also competing with every other MMO out there and all the previous Final Fantasies. When ARR came out there was also a drop in subs for most other MMO's, just like the release of any new MMO. You are trying to build a strawman around special pleading to get your point across. I think you have much stronger grounds to get things you would like in the game than following this red herring.

Just trying to help you build a better argument.

Like I said Mage, you can't say they made Final Fantasy 14 like WoW because they didn't want to compete with themselves for subscriptions when that is exactly what they are already doing. That just makes no sense to me.

Secondly, it's not the same as other Final Fantasies in the sense these are the only two Final Fantasy games that require subscriptions that are online. So they are going to compete with another a lot more directly than previous Final Fantasies did. Not many people are going to want to doll out a monthly fee for two different games.

And I appreciate you trying to help me make a better argument. That is sweet. But this was your argument/strawman. Not mine. I was just disagreeing with it. And the only reason I am even talking about this angle is because you brought it up.

Personally I don't think competition between the two games had anything to do with their decision. SE just wanted to jump on the WoW bandwagon hoping for bigger profits like so many other MMORPGs have done. And I don't buy this theory of yours that it was done to accommodate Final Fantasy 11. But you - and others - can believe this if you want. But I am pretty sure it was just another tired attempt to emulate WoW hoping to get a piece of their action.

[Obysuca]

Well it doesnt really make sense to talk with you on this Topic, because all u wanna "read" is what you wanna "read", neither Vandark or me or anyoneelse want to make this game into a XI-2 HD Version or a "Grind"Fest.

Well, I'd love an XI-2 :P But that's just me.

But really, I'd love for anything different in a mmo rather than the same junk we're thrown at with every single mmo made in the last 8 years. Because you know, those hundreds of mmos really stood out and lasted and none of them died off or went F2P >.>

[Vandark]

I'd love for anything different in a mmo rather than the same junk we're thrown at with every single mmo made in the last 8 years.

I even preferred the original FF14 all those new ideas were brilliant in my eyes. You could make the ultimate character by combining all your skills across all your classes, alter your stats to be what you wanted and basically create the ultimate class of your choice.

In 1.0 my GLD was basicly a Red Mage, I was a GLD with high VIT and Magic so I could shield my enemies and slowly kill them with DOT's, small nukes and heals.
The choice was yours what you became, like the possibility's were massive.

Too many players now complaining about anything that requires thought other than oh it's red on the ground better move before I die, spams 1-2-3 moves left.. yay I won...