Dragoon vs Lancer, is there a secret benefit?

[Lbdizzle]

I have been researching and looking around at different gear sets and what not. Now what I noticed is that beside the Gal Blog, and the different armors from the myth stone purchase. All of the gear, including all the allagan, can double for the lancer.
My question is, how effective would it be to be just a lancer at lvl 50 will full allagan. Another possibility could be a mix of allagan, phil stone armor, and myth stone accesories, cause the rings and stuff like that work for all classes.
The point of this would be to not use jumps, and use those extra five skills for things the DRG cant get like:
Straight shot = an attack that increase crit by 10% for 20s
Raging strikes = increase dmg by 20% for 20s
Venomous bite = Another DOT
Virus (who knew) = reduce targets STR, DEX by 15% for 10s
Eye for an Eye = magic barrier for 30s that has 20% chance to reduce enemies dmg by 10% for 20s
*these skills and the others you can get do not get trait enhancements, so the cool-down it pretty long for most of them*

[Lbdizzle]

those are the 5 I looked at the most but all the others which I won't describe are:
physick, hawks eye, quelling strikes (good one), cure, protect, raise (awesome), stoneskin, savage blade, flash, convalescence (good one), provoke, awareness (might be good), surecast, and swiftcast
Now take some of the skills from the PUG, and the MRD that are useful, and couple them with some stated above. One could either have a short time where you are doing a lot of crits, or have increased crits for a long time, most if not all are insta-cast off the GCD. This is not the only option, there are many skills that can be used in different circumstances.
The DRG is very powerful; however, I was playing with the idea that without jumps, a LNC could be just as or even more powerful. I would test this out, but I currently have the Gal Blog +1 sooo that is out of the question till coil T5, which is a long ways away for me.

[Lbdizzle]

Let me know what you guys think about this, and if anyone can do some dps checks, or just do anything as a LNC lvl 50 Allagan vs DRG lvl 50 Allagan. The issue with this is that you need the Allagan spear which is difficult to attain, and until then you must be a DRG.

P.S. If you are on Phoenix server hit me up always looking for peeps to do coil or anything with

[aswedishtiger]

I like where your heads at but Maurader is more viable doing this over Lancer over the ridiculous damage AND tanking you can do.

My friends and I PLD/MRD/BRD/WHM WP and AK all the time with ridiculous amounts of success and damage

Although I see nothing wrong with your logic I just think you get more bang for your buck in MRD

[Lbdizzle]

I see what your saying, MRD could benefit more by having all the stated skill available. I would say that this is an option for those who want to just hold a lance. I personally got this game to be a DRG, but seeing how that is the same as a LNC, and the jumps kinda suck. I'm just trying to maximize this class.
About the MRD though, don't they really need to become WARs for the tanking ability? If they just stay MRD then they lose out on wrath and the benefits from those skills. If a MRD did this, they would still have to join dungeons as a tank, but it would seem they would have major issues holding aggro, unless they were geared to the teeth, like full Allagan or Allagan with Hero accessories. That's just my thought, I am currently only a 20 MRD looking to become a WAR. T.T

[aswedishtiger]

smart things

Well of course for tanking you need dat defiance etc but your OP leads me to believe you like versatility and variety so if your speed running 1 tank snatch 2 sets of mobs WHM/BRD burn it down with AOE and MRD runs ahead, burns all CDs and starts on second set of mobs. PLD/WHM/BRD approach, WHM pops benediction to keep him/her up and from overpower, maim spam with buffs up group 2 probably already almost dead. See where I'm goin with this? that MRD has the utility of dealing lots of damage while absorbing a good bit of damage.

How do you plan to play WAR? I'm curious because smart players like you that theorize this kinda stuff tend to be really awesome end game.

[Gamemako]

My question is, how effective would it be to be just a lancer at lvl 50 will full allagan. Another possibility could be a mix of allagan, phil stone armor, and myth stone accesories, cause the rings and stuff like that work for all classes.

The big sticking point is the weapon level. Unless you somehow get your hands on a Twintania drop, you're invariably hurting yourself. That said, DRG will outdamage LNC even after all cross-class abilities are accounted (only Raging Strikes is actually worth counting). You're going to have considerably lower DPS with LNC after you account for the lower weapon level. You have a bunch of traited notes in your work here as well. Traits do not carry over -- Raging Strikes has a 180s cooldown, Virus only affects STR and DEX, Mantra is 5% instead of 20% boost (lol), et cetera.

The only advantage you'd have on LNC, really, are cross-class debuff abilities like Virus, and I just don't think those are really good enough to justify the loss. LNC isn't much of a tank, and even ilvl90 Allagan gear has lower defensive stats than ilvl46 Tortoiseshell. No, really, that set is the very highest DEF/MDEF a DRG can ever get -- 126/126 for HQ Tortoiseshell chest versus 110/62 for ilvl90 stuff.

MRD is a bit of a special case in that it can stack out a bunch of multiplicative bonuses to deal massive burst damage. It has one of the few pure damage buffs that is not cross-class, and unlike GLA, MRD has the native abilities to do decent DPS. It's not a the greatest DPS in total, but it's actually pretty solid all told. You might actively see a bunch of MRD running around at endgame if it weren't for the effective restriction to ilvl70 weaponry. Hell, with 2.1, you may see it happen anyway.

//EDIT:

About the MRD though, don't they really need to become WARs for the tanking ability? If they just stay MRD then they lose out on wrath and the benefits from those skills. If a MRD did this, they would still have to join dungeons as a tank, but it would seem they would have major issues holding aggro, unless they were geared to the teeth, like full Allagan or Allagan with Hero accessories. That's just my thought, I am currently only a 20 MRD looking to become a WAR. T.T

Everything WAR does is related to Defiance. Defiance reduces damage by 25%, meaning you won't be using it when you want to deal damage. The point of using MRD is to have a super-durable DPS -- you aren't really tanking with it.

[Lbdizzle]

has the utility of dealing lots of damage while absorbing a good bit of damage.

Thank you for the compliment!! That quote is precisely what I would like in a class. I am picking up WAR for two reasons. I wanna be able to take a hit and dish out massive dmg, and be an important role in the dungeon. The problem I have with DRG is, I do crazy dmg, but I am pretty much a secondary role that can be replaced by many other classes. Just like in your example, you talk about MRD/WHM/BRD, or PLD/WHM/BRD (if i'm correct in assuming these are separate groups), any other dps can go in that load up (even though a BLM would fit better). Good WARs who can keep agro, are somewhat hard to find, at least on my server. I am just in the beginning stages of learning to tank, and lvling my MRD.

[Lbdizzle]

PLD is IMO the simpler tanking class, so I strayed away from that, due to me playing DRG, the simpler dps IMO. WAR is more complicated has loads of health, to take hits, and deals great dmg, but this post has pushed me to want to make a MRD, and just get titan weapon and full DL. Of course till Allagan.
That will take a long time, and until then, i'm just theorizing how to make my DRG, or LNC, the best it can be.
My friend and I were talking about this and he brought up the boost one gets with taking on the soul crystal. My question is, would this be important? Or would the exchange of gaining the extra crit and dmg buffs outweigh the boost. If someone could get the exact numbers on the benefit from switching from LNC to DRG, that would help greatly.

[Lbdizzle]

The big sticking point is the weapon level. Unless you somehow get your hands on a Twintania drop, you're invariably hurting yourself. That said, DRG will outdamage LNC even after all cross-class abilities are accounted (only Raging Strikes is actually worth counting). You're going to have considerably lower DPS with LNC after you account for the lower weapon level. You have a bunch of traited notes in your work here as well. Traits do not carry over -- Raging Strikes has a 180s cooldown, Virus only affects STR and DEX, Mantra is 5% instead of 20% boost (lol), et cetera.

Ahh thank you for letting me know that. When gathering these definitions I was not aware that the traits were included I will edit that out.