Musings on the DoH endgame in FFXIV

[KrenianKandos]

So, topic of the day folks is the "endgame" that DoH have when they hit that infamous level 50 leveling goal. First, let's begin with a preface:

The Armory system allows users to switch to roles on one character and level said role to the maximum of 50 with it's own progression and goals. Naturally, one would assume that at every end of the leveling scheme there should be some sort of endgame.

DoW/M have the ability to go into dungeons and pillage mobs for their loot and increase their strength by gathering tomes which will allow them to purchase gear they may not get in the runs. This is done by adding dungeons with higher difficulty so the progression feeling is really there.

DoL have the ability of every set hours you can go around the world and mine a special item that crafters may need to create items. This allows them to keep track and build up on some economy by selling their wares to the crafters that can create items. This allows their progression to continue as gil is an infinite source and you can simply feed your other needs that way.

Here's where the problem begins: DoH have the ability to craft items past level 50. The progression exists that you need to get certain thresholds to actually be able to craft the item which is good. The problem lies as follows: You either force the crafter to buy a material that the DoW/M farms and buys (Most items crafted at the end game require you to gather Tomes to buy said items) or you actually force yourself to have to level a DoW/M and buy the items from Myth tomes. This goes against the spirit of progression as you're pretty much locked from this point from proceeding without doing some other role, which you should not have to do to progress in your role. This also causes an issue where DoW/M actually are the ones making money off of the crafters as well as once you have Darklight, you simply feed your tomes over to the items and it causes them to have a source of infinite money (I understand this isn't the case yet as the game is new, but it can become the problem.)

Secondly, if you do bother getting the items as a DoH main spec, you then have to craft items that are worse than the items you can originally purchase for DoW/M, or, marginally better. This is progression but very frustrating in the fact that most people don't really see the point. You already begin to discourage the people to want to continue this progression path because there's no real benefit.

My third and final point which is really frustrating for DoH members is this (And is linked to the second point): With 2.1's release, crafters are going to get severely damaged in their already low income situation due to the fact that Crystal Tower will be released and as such, you will have a 24 man dungeon run that will give you better gear than even HQ items. So effectively, CT will kill off the progression for DoH and render it as a side thing to do when you're bored.


S-E, you have a solid crafting system in place and the ability to actually go and make crafting another progression path for some people who simply don't want to do the dungeon grind. All you need to do is allow DoH to effectively get the items that allow them to craft them. Yes, this might hurt DoW to build money. This may also hurt the price of the items. But in the end, you will give DoH roles a purpose and a goal that is currently really in a bad spot.

Discuss!

[Sayura_]

So you're saying throw DOL away because essentially that's what you're suggesting. The items you can craft sell for more than anything I can mine/gather so you should have extra money to buy materials.

[KrenianKandos]

So you're saying throw DOL away because essentially that's what you're suggesting. The items you can craft sell for more than anything I can mine/gather so you should have extra money to buy materials.

DoL cannot gather Coke which is essential to crafting Darksteel. DoL would still have to gather Darksteel which allows Armorers (for example) to create nuggets and furthermore ingots. So no, DoL would not be effectively thrown out.

[Rbstr]

I don't really have a problem needing the tome mats from combat classes. That's not any different than needing a gatherer to do it for you. You can pick up the class and get it yourself or buy it, either way.

But, at the very least, the two-star crafted items need to cost something close to the same number of tomes as a comparable DL piece so there's a reasonable choice to be made between the two.

Even the best value crafted things, like the Astral jewelry that can work on healer and DPS casters, cost well over what it would take to just get two separate DL pieces.

[Yoona]

Some HQ items melded correctly are BIS even with ilvl 90 gear currently available. I'm not sure where you are coming up with this Crystal Tower will make DoH out of business idea.

[SnickleWhiskers]

Well with all the endgame threads going around it should be obvious endgame kind of sucks across the board.

[AlyssaImagine]

While it is often times frustrating, I'm holding my opinion until the next patch. Housing comes out then, and I believe the last letter said all crafters and gathers will be able to make/gather for housing. I'd like to imagine our end game, and progression will increase then. Even if NPC's do sell some housing items, I'm pretty sure some things will only ever be made by a crafter. :P I'm looking forward to that...unless SE manages to screw that up.

Edit: Just thought I'd add a little something. You want DoH to progress, and keep earning gil, yet you don't want Tome items to exist? How do you expect non crafters and gatherers to buy your things if there wasn't a way for them to farm to make gil too?

[Estellios]

So no one else figures they will add iL80+ crafted gear that has the potential to be better than dropped/farmed gear alongside the gear drops from Crystal Tower?

[KrenianKandos]

While it is often times frustrating, I'm holding my opinion until the next patch. Housing comes out then, and I believe the last letter said all crafters and gathers will be able to make/gather for housing. I'd like to imagine our end game, and progression will increase then. Even if NPC's do sell some housing items, I'm pretty sure some things will only ever be made by a crafter. :P I'm looking forward to that...unless SE manages to screw that up.

Edit: Just thought I'd add a little something. You want DoH to progress, and keep earning gil, yet you don't want Tome items to exist? How do you expect non crafters and gatherers to buy your things if there wasn't a way for them to farm to make gil too?

Here's what i'll say about the edit:


Gatherers feed Crafters with the materials required to craft items. As such, gatherers get their gil intake from Gatherers. This causes them to have the ability to progress even after 50.

Crafters, in this case, should be feeding your DoW/M to actually use the gear you craft and make it so that you feed their pockets with Gil as well. The problem is that certain items need to have the Tome items which crafters have NO way to really get unless they go into the DoW/M role, which defeats the purpose of progression on the class.

DoW/M already have their progress when it comes to getting better in the form of getting Tomes.

My idea is two pronged:

1) Allow DoH to get a seperate sort of tome currency that is directly linked to all the crafting items that you are currently getting with Tomes. Link it to Leves so that you can do those as a crafter of level 50, and keep the cap if you want to gate the progression. This allows some sort of progress to continue without needing DoW.

2) Remove Tome linked items related to crafting and offer them some other method that crafters can achieve. This can also fall under Leves that are tough to finish but reward you with an item to craft. This could go and be random and allow Crafters to sell the ones they don't necessarily need.

To me, it just makes no sense for you to have a DoH item offered in the DoW/M progression and not to them. DoH items should be linked to DoH. DoW/M level their classes to level a battle class, not a gil making class. They can get money by hopefully doing the dailys that will be introduced in 2.1 or by leves based on DoW/M. Why would DoW/M make money off of crafters to craft items for them that aren't even looked at?

If you want gil, level a craft/gathering class. You shouldn't level a DoW class and expect it to make the most money out of all the classes in the game because the currency is linked to those items you can only farm in dungeons.

So no one else figures they will add iL80+ crafted gear that has the potential to be better than dropped/farmed gear alongside the gear drops from Crystal Tower?

Unless I honestly missed something, nothing has been said about crafters really getting anything other than the housing system being linked to crafters in the form that they'll be able to do a lot of stuff for it. Which is great if that's the case: it'll open up doors for the Crafting community somewhat. It'll be dependent on how many people actually want to buy FC and personal (when introduced) housing.

But it'll still be better than what DoH currently have.

[Raiz_Cineris]

No. There is nothing wrong with players hsving to use other players to gather items. This idea is not good