Absence of end-game content : the downfall of every MMO.

[Shiyo]

You math seems off...

Coil has 3 bosses, Cadecus, ADS, and Twintania. Molten core had 10 bosses. 3 * 3 = 9, that's over triple the amount of bosses in the release raids of both games.

Clearing molten core to the final boss also didn't take 45 mins, no matter how well you knew the fights, something which my group has been able to do after a single week of clearing turn 1 - > 4 ONCE. Ragnarok and twintania are both equally challenging fights, but that's all coil has going for it, a single final boss.

This isn't even getting into how WOW shipped with Stratholme(Two dungeons in one), Scholomance and LBRS/UBRS at release for non-raid dungeons.

[Welsper59]

Coil has 3 bosses, Cadecus, ADS, and Twintania. Molten core had 10 bosses. 3 * 3 = 9, that's over triple the amount of bosses in the release raids of both games.

Clearing molten core to the final boss also didn't take 45 mins, no matter how well you knew the fights, something which my group has been able to do after a single week of clearing turn 1 - > 4 ONCE. Ragnarok and twintania are both equally challenging fights, but that's all coil has going for it, a single final boss.

This isn't even getting into how WOW shipped with Stratholme(Two dungeons in one), Scholomance and LBRS/UBRS at release for non-raid dungeons.

I think the main question is why you feel a need to be arguing about WoW in comparison to FFXIV? Different developers, different philosophies, different company, different game. None of that screams that this game must be like WoW in content availability at every single stage of development. If you don't want to go play WoW, you need to remember that you're not playing WoW LOL.

I hope you don't compare everything you ever encounter to something you feel should be the shining example that everyone should strive for. You'd be living a really boring and judgmental life if you do.

[Codek]

Coil has 3 bosses, Cadecus, ADS, and Twintania. Molten core had 10 bosses. 3 * 3 = 9, that's over triple the amount of bosses in the release raids of both games.

Clearing molten core to the final boss also didn't take 45 mins, no matter how well you knew the fights, something which my group has been able to do after a single week of clearing turn 1 - > 4 ONCE. Ragnarok and twintania are both equally challenging fights, but that's all coil has going for it, a single final boss.

This isn't even getting into how WOW shipped with Stratholme(Two dungeons in one), Scholomance and LBRS/UBRS at release for non-raid dungeons.

This is my problem, your skewing your numbers.

8/10 bosses in MC were a joke where 90% of the 'challenge' involved cleansing the right stuff and not standing someplace stupid. I give WoW credit that they incetivized most of the bosses to be repeatably killed over and over but that doesn't make it any more engaging. For each some individual players, most of the time the fights came down to watching for one individual part of the fight and just doing your job (Unless you were a hunter, they just came for the loots).

You are picking and choosing your number in favor of your on argument without any set guidelines. I can't even imaging why your excluding turn 4 from the Final Fantasy fights. Hell, even Titan fits into the category of fights where the majority of the raid needs some part of a brain. By excluding the Primal fights (and technically the other 8-man content but that's too much of a joke) your basis seems lost.

So I either see it as (WoW:FF-ARR) 3:4 meaningful fights, Or 11:7 total fights. But we can pick and choose numbers all night long and it still would mean very little in the long run. I'm just not the one blasting a "3 times as many bosses" statement around as if it's fact.

I do agree SE did do a poor job with the early level 50 content. I will add the comment that CM and The Praetorium do also exist as much as we all like to pretend they don't. Also that the WoW dungeons were 90% trash mobs and personally, I wouldn't want to see that kind of content again. It could still be done so much better though.