Absence of end-game content : the downfall of every MMO.

[Codek]

Incase you missed it:

WOW's release raid had over 3 times the bosses of coil and 4 end game dungeons. This was all at RELEASE, and a game from 2004, almost a DECADE ago. I expect better in a decade of the MMO genre being refined and redone.

Decade old MMO and had much more content at release than this game.

You math seems off...

[zdub303]

You math seems off...

He was close though. On release, Molten Core had 10 bosses and Onyxia's Lair had 1. 11 end game raid bosses that were available day 1.

For dungeons. You had Upper Blackrock Spire and Lower Blackrock Spire, Scholomance, and Stratholme (which was really two dungeons tbh undead side and live side). Any of those dungeons took quite a while to complete and had some difficulty to them for quite a while. Unlike the snoozefest/faceroll that is AK/WP.

You know what most people consider the downfall of WoW? Wrath... you know.. when they nerfed the game to hell and made it faceroll easy... kinda like how FF14 is atm.

[Welsper59]

He was close though. On release, Molten Core had 10 bosses and Onyxia's Lair had 1. 11 end game raid bosses that were available day 1.

For dungeons. You had Upper Blackrock Spire and Lower Blackrock Spire, Scholomance, and Stratholme (which was really two dungeons tbh undead side and live side). Any of those dungeons took quite a while to complete and had some difficulty to them for quite a while. Unlike the snoozefest/faceroll that is AK/WP.

You know what most people consider the downfall of WoW? Wrath... you know.. when they nerfed the game to hell and made it faceroll easy... kinda like how FF14 is atm.

Actually Wrath is widely regarded as the best point. Not just in subscription peak but in content involvement. It had a prime character as the main antagonist, undead theme, and had a greater access to casual play. You'd be quite ignorant to think any of those things are bad to most people these days.

Wrath was the downfall of the game to people who seek a closer-knit community, one where hardcore players truly shined, or where there was SLIGHTLY more punishment seen as a good thing. These people are a significant minority in MMORPGs. I fall in-between the bunch, loved the punishing nature of FFXI, but also loved the facerolling of WoW. I play games for them being what they are, not what I project them to be.

[Shiyo]

You math seems off...

Coil has 3 bosses, Cadecus, ADS, and Twintania. Molten core had 10 bosses. 3 * 3 = 9, that's over triple the amount of bosses in the release raids of both games.

Clearing molten core to the final boss also didn't take 45 mins, no matter how well you knew the fights, something which my group has been able to do after a single week of clearing turn 1 - > 4 ONCE. Ragnarok and twintania are both equally challenging fights, but that's all coil has going for it, a single final boss.

This isn't even getting into how WOW shipped with Stratholme(Two dungeons in one), Scholomance and LBRS/UBRS at release for non-raid dungeons.

[Welsper59]

Coil has 3 bosses, Cadecus, ADS, and Twintania. Molten core had 10 bosses. 3 * 3 = 9, that's over triple the amount of bosses in the release raids of both games.

Clearing molten core to the final boss also didn't take 45 mins, no matter how well you knew the fights, something which my group has been able to do after a single week of clearing turn 1 - > 4 ONCE. Ragnarok and twintania are both equally challenging fights, but that's all coil has going for it, a single final boss.

This isn't even getting into how WOW shipped with Stratholme(Two dungeons in one), Scholomance and LBRS/UBRS at release for non-raid dungeons.

I think the main question is why you feel a need to be arguing about WoW in comparison to FFXIV? Different developers, different philosophies, different company, different game. None of that screams that this game must be like WoW in content availability at every single stage of development. If you don't want to go play WoW, you need to remember that you're not playing WoW LOL.

I hope you don't compare everything you ever encounter to something you feel should be the shining example that everyone should strive for. You'd be living a really boring and judgmental life if you do.

[Codek]

Coil has 3 bosses, Cadecus, ADS, and Twintania. Molten core had 10 bosses. 3 * 3 = 9, that's over triple the amount of bosses in the release raids of both games.

Clearing molten core to the final boss also didn't take 45 mins, no matter how well you knew the fights, something which my group has been able to do after a single week of clearing turn 1 - > 4 ONCE. Ragnarok and twintania are both equally challenging fights, but that's all coil has going for it, a single final boss.

This isn't even getting into how WOW shipped with Stratholme(Two dungeons in one), Scholomance and LBRS/UBRS at release for non-raid dungeons.

This is my problem, your skewing your numbers.

8/10 bosses in MC were a joke where 90% of the 'challenge' involved cleansing the right stuff and not standing someplace stupid. I give WoW credit that they incetivized most of the bosses to be repeatably killed over and over but that doesn't make it any more engaging. For each some individual players, most of the time the fights came down to watching for one individual part of the fight and just doing your job (Unless you were a hunter, they just came for the loots).

You are picking and choosing your number in favor of your on argument without any set guidelines. I can't even imaging why your excluding turn 4 from the Final Fantasy fights. Hell, even Titan fits into the category of fights where the majority of the raid needs some part of a brain. By excluding the Primal fights (and technically the other 8-man content but that's too much of a joke) your basis seems lost.

So I either see it as (WoW:FF-ARR) 3:4 meaningful fights, Or 11:7 total fights. But we can pick and choose numbers all night long and it still would mean very little in the long run. I'm just not the one blasting a "3 times as many bosses" statement around as if it's fact.

I do agree SE did do a poor job with the early level 50 content. I will add the comment that CM and The Praetorium do also exist as much as we all like to pretend they don't. Also that the WoW dungeons were 90% trash mobs and personally, I wouldn't want to see that kind of content again. It could still be done so much better though.

[PapesseLudovique]

WoW was garbage when it launched.

[Nooblet]

I agree .. the way the endgame was setup was horrible. And far more people will quit between now and 2.1 than they will gain after 2.1

[Yagrush]

Stop with the comparison with WoW, and stop ignoring the fact that trying to create a dungeon in WoW in vanilla's standards wouldn't take the same effort of making a dungeon or raid to FFXIV's standards.

[Alhanelem]

Number of bosses isn't a meaningful statistic (Also, people are getting it wrong, as ADS is also in turn 1; technically turn 2 is actually 2-5 mini boss fights in addition to the actual main boss- only a couple of the MC bosses are anywhere on the order of any of Coil's bosses)

FFXIV's dungeons don't feel as substantial only because they don't have anywhere near the amount of trash mobs that Wow dungeons have. Major encounters are a larger portion of the dungeon experience.