Neighborhood Watch RMT Prevention [Suggestion]

[tachikoma]

I like in game captcha's, these are incredibly easy to implement and could automatically pop up on screen. Any time a player hits x amount of crafts/kills etc in game a captcha pops up fail it and you are locked for a small period of time. Keep failing and your time creases exponentially. Fail too many times and you must contact SE.

As my current ls has ex GM's from FFXI in it I have herd that they used to use this type of /t's to reported bots they would ask basic math questions like "what is 2+3?" If they failed 2-3 in a row they were banned simple as that.

[Belial]

Any situation in which you give a character the ability to affect another's playing, is a terrible idea. Anytime you place things like "captcha"s in-game, it's a terrible idea. Sorry, but I don't want to be annoyed with flags simply because I'm more efficient than other players. There is no way a player-run banning system can work properly. Leave this to SE. You don't like bots? You don't like cheaters? Don't play MMOs.

[Belial]

Also one of the bigger reasons RMTs aren't an issue in this game is the broken economy. There's no point in removing these people yet as they are not having any impact on the game. They don't stop other players from gathering mats, they aren't inflating prices since everything is inflated anyway due to no gil sink, and they have no means to stop other players from accomplishing their in-game goals. So as of now, there just isn't a reason to remove them.

[Fensfield]

<Above>

Okay, first off.. no, forget that, we all know the 'shut up, stop talking about it, I know you won't get a better answer so leave it alone or stop playing' argument is inherently flawed.

Second, your black and white view of things is generally unhelpful, especially given how reliant on compromise this genre is. In-game captchas ARE annoying I'll grant you, and it's sad when out-game elements are force in, so. However, you either missed or ignored the part where I suggested players be safe from captchas for an extended period - say half an hour to an hour - after being hit with one.

Further provisos - like not being vulnerable to them while in combat - also serve to make it less troublesome.

Finally, there are two reasons your point about the broken economy and bots being harmless is flawed: first off, encountering bots degrades the player experience. The idea is to make things more fun, therefore dealing with bots is a good idea. The 'like it or lump it' argument is unhelpful, stupid, and not a good idea in a genre so reliant on customer relations. Second, they aren't effecting the economy right now, no. But what happens when the economy gets fixed and the millions and millions of gil being held in RMT storage characters gets dumped on the market? That will not be pretty. I'm sure there are more reasons, too, like encouraging the client hacking community, but .. I really can't be bothered.

[Sirtis]

As my current ls has ex GM's from FFXI in it I have herd that they used to use this type of /t's to reported bots they would ask basic math questions like "what is 2+3?" If they failed 2-3 in a row they were banned simple as that.

Sounds like the feature GMail put in. Solve a math problem to prove you aren't drunk enough to send off an email you will regret later.

I am against the idea of a prompt or captcha, no matter how automated. Doing a simple math problem wouldn't be an issue for a well made bot. Data mining for possible bots + reports from players + GM monitoring is the method I support. Any more than that and it will interfere with playing too much.

[Belial]

Okay, first off.. no, forget that, we all know the 'shut up, stop talking about it, I know you won't get a better answer so leave it alone or stop playing' argument is inherently flawed.

Second, your black and white view of things is generally unhelpful, especially given how reliant on compromise this genre is. In-game captchas ARE annoying I'll grant you, and it's sad when out-game elements are force in, so. However, you either missed or ignored the part where I suggested players be safe from captchas for an extended period - say half an hour to an hour - after being hit with one.

Further provisos - like not being vulnerable to them while in combat - also serve to make it less troublesome.

Finally, there are two reasons your point about the broken economy and bots being harmless is flawed: first off, encountering bots degrades the player experience. The idea is to make things more fun, therefore dealing with bots is a good idea. The 'like it or lump it' argument is unhelpful, stupid, and not a good idea in a genre so reliant on customer relations. Second, they aren't effecting the economy right now, no. But what happens when the economy gets fixed and the millions and millions of gil being held in RMT storage characters gets dumped on the market? That will not be pretty. I'm sure there are more reasons, too, like encouraging the client hacking community, but .. I really can't be bothered.

Quitting the thread though.. not up to further arguing.

Sounds like a whole lot of butt-hurt over someone not agreeing with you, and you failed to point out any validity in your own arguments. Face.

[Fensfield]

<Above>

Aaand now obvious troll (or at least total jerk) is on ignored list.

[Wynn]

Further provisos - like not being vulnerable to them while in combat - also serve to make it less troublesome.

That would protect battle classes, though I can totally see someone using this to take a healer out of a party battle just before it was initiated in order to wipe said party. However, my primary question to you would be: how would you prevent this from becoming a griefing tactic against non-battle classes since they don't battle at all? I would be very unhappy if I constantly had to deal with these capture-thingymabobs while trying to level alchemy.

And what about people that are afk? Someone goes to the bathroom and they are punished for it with 30 minutes of downtime since someone decided to send them this? I'm really not so sure I like this idea at all.

[Vahzl]

I don't want random internet white knights judging me and my gameplay thanks. I will stick with the STF. I do alot of crafting, and alot of Botany, and get accused of botting around once per 3 day period. I am always at my PC, always moving my character, and always working on it.

I don't respond to people asking me if I am a bot, as it's none of their damn business and damn rude of them to assume that just because I am grinding, they have a right to accuse me of this stuff.

There is a difference between being a bot and having no life

[Fensfield]

<Above>

Well, as for protecting non-battle classes.. well to start off, as I said, 'further provisos'. Like, for instance, not being able to target them on people during gathering, either.

Further, the way the system itself worked in Mabinogi, the initial failure was only a short pause - and if half an hour is uncomfortable, you can make it longer. Personally, I would think the AFK point would be solved by a combination of the initial failure only yielding a small pause, the captcha having a comfortable amount of time to accommodate a trip to he toilet, and not being able to hit someone with another such captcha bomb until a certain (likely incremental) amount of time has passed.

Another move Mabinogi used was to give a .. small, but still appreciable amount of experience to the person targeted by the bomb in exchange for solving it correctly, thus deterring people wanting to use them for griefing at least a little. I admit, this would raise concerns about people using them on each other for experience, but in turn, being locked down for an ever increasing amount of time should, I would think, counter this (not to mention, in the example game here, you could only carry a very limited number of them at the same time). Certainly, my experience with them in Mabinogi was nothing but favourable.

I do see why you would be concerned, though - and that's aside from the experience-invasive effect of the captcha itself. In the end, I suspect a viable RMT solution beyond 'leave it to the GMs' (itself of questionable viability) is always going to be very much about trying to find an acceptable compromise, but i also think there is more could be done. They could at least point the current reporting system through the in-game support desk instead of through that difficult and obscure website.

Thanks for turning the reasoned argument on me, though, I certainly admit it'd be far from a perfect solution, if there is one at all.