Paladin Cure... Debate, warrior stuff

[Amyas]

You can have decent heals if they take away Hallowed Ground and Sentinel.

Sounds great...take your hp stance away

Sure, as long as Wars get that HP buff by default and generate the same amount of enmity without the damage reduction ;p EDIT: Almost forgot, remove wrath and make it where we can constantly spam Inner Beast and Steel Cyclone.
-pretty much what this thread is asking for for Pld. 'Oh hai guise, lets take the already preferred tanking class and buff it!'

yeah nope.

[Anachronox]

Sounds great...take your hp stance away

[Gilthas]

The only thing I can think of is that Paladin is now like Knight from FFT (which is it's Japanese name and should have been translated as such)

FFXI's Paladin is also called Knight in the JP version.

Even Warrior has more healing potential than PLD.

As it should considering that most of Warrior's damage mitigation is supposed to come from self-healing. Give Paladins the ability to heal themselves better than a Warrior on top of their already much better defensive abilities and why in the world would anyone ever use a Warrior?

SE needs to bring Warriors up to the level of Paladins before they consider buffing Paladins.

[Devilray]

The only FF game where PLD healing is worth anything is FF11.

While this is true, this is also an MMO, and it can't really follow the same pattern as single-player games. I don't expect a Paladin to keep themselves alive, but their cures do seem a bit limited. Then again, I'm not a Paladin, just a White Mage.

I think you need to get your brain checked Hermit, only if you thought FFXI is a single player game.

[Seidaku]

I can see some changes that could be possible. Change Sword Oath to give 25% improvement on heals rather than dps and decrease dps by 25%.
Give them Cure II but remove hollowed ground and replace it with a buff to allow a cast to be uninterrupted so they can utilize cure II.
Since they gain an extra cross class ability need to remove something probably from conjurer however I would like to see them lose the warrior 20% defensive buff.

Now like a warrior can be used as a sub par dps when only 1 tank is needed the paladin can be used as a sub par healer when only 1 is needed.

[Vmage]

A PLD should never be casting stoneskin, it's a waste of time, just like cure.

no it isn't...

it's the spell you cast during p5 landslides when your proper mitigation cooldowns(sentinel/rampart/bulwark/*sigh*foresight) aren't available (not to mention any of the other encounters where big burst is headed your way and you've established an enmity lead already)

helping mitigate some of the damage from rock buster -> mountain buster is the only real contribution a tank can make on titan, don't tell people not to do it.

that's as bad as the people telling new tanks to not bother dodging the bombs... there's so little a tank can do on titan to influence the outcome of the fight, and people like you come along and attempt to trivialize the role even more

tldr - don't listen to molly, she's a bad tank.

[Devilray]

A PLD should never be casting stoneskin, it's a waste of time, just like cure.

WRONG. You should cast it when you got enmity lead and a big damage move is coming up.

[Makeda]

the ffxiv pld IS the Knight, unfortunately.

i'm perfectly fine with how pld is right now by focusing on high mitigation, although to be able to cast more potent cures would be very nice for emergencies.

There can be no "unfortunately" because there is no such thing as a Paladin in FF games. Every time you see the word "Paladin" in a FF game, know that its actually "Knight".

You do understand that it is called Paladin in english because that is essentially what they chose to go with? It doesn't matter if the Japanese wording is "knight", the NA team will choose different terms and not always do a direct translation because sometimes there isn't even a direct translation.

If that's the case, then the translation team really messed up.

A Paladin is a "holy warrior", the 12th century version of the modern day suicide bomber terrorist: A paladin was somebody who went off to murder massive numbers of people who's only failing was not having the same religion as them, all under a very harmful interpretation of their own religion by political types who manipulated those young men for their own power advancement.

Its not a knight, its a sociopath.

It may sound silly to some, but the reason I never pick Paladin in MMOs is the archetype if based on something the modern world near-universally sees are the purest form of evil.

Now if we wanted to make the Paladin the self healer... we'd basically need to flip the names of the two tanks, and move their cross class abilities:

An axe wielder that self heals and gets skills from conjurer: Paladin.
Sword and shield user with mitigation who get skills from Pugilist: Warrior.

- You'd be remaking both, into something different. Its probably 4 years too late for this conversation.

*****

The tank job with self healing is called Warrior.

Everybody gets something, in exchange for not having something else.

Bloodbath is the OP self healing.

The point is not about whether or not the balance team tweaked the numbers right. The goal is that warrior is the self healing tank, paladin is the mitigation one. IF the balance team is still employed in a year, the numbers will have likely been tweaked more... as the goal has not changed (and frankly, outside of the HM level 50 content, the goal is working: At my level I can self-heal from 20% to full in 2, sometimes 1 GCD - self healing might even be TOO STRONG before 50... Some Warriors say that even in the HM level 50 stuff it works - but I'm not there yet so I can't speak from knowledge).

I want to cast Cure and Esuna and Raise on others, though.

You know, being more than a stun bot on some occasions...

So you basically want to be able to play both tank classes at the exact same time... If you get all that, what do you give all of the other classes in the game?

We could just start arguing for a game with no classes... Its worked in table top RPGs, maybe they could do it in an MMO. But that would be a game very different from this one.

[Molly_Millions]

WRONG. You should cast it when you got enmity lead and a big damage move is coming up.

In this case I use one of the plethora of damage mitigating skills available to PLD natively, which all do a better job than SS.

[Orophin]

They stripped all of Paladin's native healing abilities from 1.0. I think they should have just made PGL Paladin's other subclass. At least that way they would get self healing and more mitigation.