Paladin Cure... Debate, warrior stuff

[Valcro]

There can be no "unfortunately" because there is no such thing as a Paladin in FF games. Every time you see the word "Paladin" in a FF game, know that its actually "Knight".

You do understand that it is called Paladin in english because that is essentially what they chose to go with? It doesn't matter if the Japanese wording is "knight", the NA team will choose different terms and not always do a direct translation because sometimes there isn't even a direct translation. It might even be cultural based. You ever take the time to look at english names of things in FF games here then research what those names are in Japanese? Those Japanese sometimes choose weird names according to their so called english translation. It ranges from job names to zone names.


So essentially a Paladin is exactly what it says it is, a Paladin. Japan might call it a more generic term like Knight, doesn't mean the rest of the world has to.

Definition of PALADIN

1
: a trusted military leader (as for a medieval prince)

2
: a leading champion of a cause

Knight-
: a soldier in the past who had a high social rank and who fought while riding a horse and usually wearing armor
: a man who is given a special honor and the title of Sir by the king or queen of England

Yeah I'll take Paladin over "Knight"

[Ryans]

the ffxiv pld IS the Knight, unfortunately.

to incorporate curing into the PLD mechanics requires a complete overhaul of the job though... in ffxi, self-heals were ok because they generated a fair amount of hate with all the +enmity gear. in this game, even if you are able to cure for as much as a whm would, it doesnt generate nearly as enough hate as your combos to make cure appropriate party tools.

I don't see how adding a cure with an "Additional Effect: Increased Enmity" would be a complete overhaul. With Shield Oath, Curing for 400-500 might already be equivalent to something like 600-700 points of enmity. It doesn't even need to be a way for you to generate enough threat to hold hate. After you've secured a decent level of enmity on a boss, you can start to toss in cures every once in a while. It would get a little enmity and help with staying alive, that's all you can really ask for.

[Makeda]

the ffxiv pld IS the Knight, unfortunately.

i'm perfectly fine with how pld is right now by focusing on high mitigation, although to be able to cast more potent cures would be very nice for emergencies.

There can be no "unfortunately" because there is no such thing as a Paladin in FF games. Every time you see the word "Paladin" in a FF game, know that its actually "Knight".

You do understand that it is called Paladin in english because that is essentially what they chose to go with? It doesn't matter if the Japanese wording is "knight", the NA team will choose different terms and not always do a direct translation because sometimes there isn't even a direct translation.

If that's the case, then the translation team really messed up.

A Paladin is a "holy warrior", the 12th century version of the modern day suicide bomber terrorist: A paladin was somebody who went off to murder massive numbers of people who's only failing was not having the same religion as them, all under a very harmful interpretation of their own religion by political types who manipulated those young men for their own power advancement.

Its not a knight, its a sociopath.

It may sound silly to some, but the reason I never pick Paladin in MMOs is the archetype if based on something the modern world near-universally sees are the purest form of evil.

Now if we wanted to make the Paladin the self healer... we'd basically need to flip the names of the two tanks, and move their cross class abilities:

An axe wielder that self heals and gets skills from conjurer: Paladin.
Sword and shield user with mitigation who get skills from Pugilist: Warrior.

- You'd be remaking both, into something different. Its probably 4 years too late for this conversation.

*****

The tank job with self healing is called Warrior.

Everybody gets something, in exchange for not having something else.

Bloodbath is the OP self healing.

The point is not about whether or not the balance team tweaked the numbers right. The goal is that warrior is the self healing tank, paladin is the mitigation one. IF the balance team is still employed in a year, the numbers will have likely been tweaked more... as the goal has not changed (and frankly, outside of the HM level 50 content, the goal is working: At my level I can self-heal from 20% to full in 2, sometimes 1 GCD - self healing might even be TOO STRONG before 50... Some Warriors say that even in the HM level 50 stuff it works - but I'm not there yet so I can't speak from knowledge).

I want to cast Cure and Esuna and Raise on others, though.

You know, being more than a stun bot on some occasions...

So you basically want to be able to play both tank classes at the exact same time... If you get all that, what do you give all of the other classes in the game?

We could just start arguing for a game with no classes... Its worked in table top RPGs, maybe they could do it in an MMO. But that would be a game very different from this one.

[Gilthas]

The only thing I can think of is that Paladin is now like Knight from FFT (which is it's Japanese name and should have been translated as such)

FFXI's Paladin is also called Knight in the JP version.

Even Warrior has more healing potential than PLD.

As it should considering that most of Warrior's damage mitigation is supposed to come from self-healing. Give Paladins the ability to heal themselves better than a Warrior on top of their already much better defensive abilities and why in the world would anyone ever use a Warrior?

SE needs to bring Warriors up to the level of Paladins before they consider buffing Paladins.

[Deusteele]

Excluding FFXI, if you were using a Knight/Paladin to heal, you were doing it wrong. They were at best used to top people off after a fight to conserve your healers MP.

[misterrpg]

I think they should simply increase the MND of Paladin while equipping the job crystal. That will make Cure better.

Although I would prefer a Paladin-specific Cure spell. How about something that drains MP over time while restoring your HP? MP is only used for Cure.. Stoneskin.. and Flash.. for PLD currently (not going to count the Oaths)

[hamsteak]

warrior is supposed to be the self-healing tank, so i don't think giving paladins' cure 2 would be fair

also, your proposed change to warriors makes them paladins' with axes instead of swords

[NoctisCaelus]

My stone skin gives me 600 HP or so. Haha I use it all the time when tanking. Helps out the healers immensely.

[Choyi]

In order to let paladin have a more potent cure (cure II as in your example) they woul probably have to be nerfed in mitignation to compensate, like loose out on some dmg reduction from of Shield Oath or similar change.
I'm pretty sure no one would be happy with that tradeoff, I sure wouldn't be.

Warrior is the tank class that is balanced around self healing, and even that isn't realy working out as well as in theory atm, and SE have already announced its being looked into.

Paladin tanks trough rotating defensive cooldowns and having extra damage reduction trough a self buff, if you want to "heal" yourself as a PLD then Stoneskin is a useable option for many figths, if not use your MP on casting Flash.

[Joshhoowah]

I think Paladins need a DPS boost too. I think it’s a bit silly that you have to rely on other players in an MMORPG.