Which Fairy IS better?

[cainejw]

Selene is not always better than Eos. Why do I say this?

Selene can actually lower DPS on combo-heavy classes like Monk. She can also cause issue for White Mages who spit out more heals quicker than expected.

The best faerie to use is the one you've tested. Yes, that is vague. Yes, it's on purpose. Neither faerie is best in all circumstances. Likewise, no scholar heal is the best heal for all situations. You have a tool chest from which to draw, not a checklist to follow.

And frankly, I would not use Selene with the intention of her healing being superior to Eos. It is not. However, Selene can help YOUR healing. However, you have to really be cognizant of the fact that your faerie effects more than your stats, healing, etc.

[Miridori]

Selene is better for support and dps but I dont think she is better in term of healing.
Yes, mathematically she can give you more healing during her 60s of Fay Glow during two minute period. However, no one spam heal for the whole 2 minutes.
Eos Illumination is only 20s. Together with Rouse, you can get thru a very spkiy period. (high stack boss turn 2, high stack ads or accidental high-voltage, turn 4,...)
So I personally think Eos's healing boost is more effective for healing. Not to mention it is more mana-friendly.
There are use for both. I don't think one is definitely better than other. It also works with the play style of player: want more control and use embrace manually? Selene. want to keep your cool down and react appropriately? Eos.

[Rainsford]

*snip*

Let's say you're fighting ADS, the tanks turn it on accident and one tank gets stuck with 5+ stacks. If you and the WHM straight heal-bomb them, they really shouldn't die if they are decently geared. I've personally never faced a situation in BC where the tank died from lack of heals because we just couldn't pump out enough HPS.

What will kill you during a phase like this is having a healer get targeted by a laser, or having a paralyze interrupt your heal. In both of these scenarios, casting quicker makes it less likely that you'll miss a cast because of a mechanic.

Also remember that, at the end of the day, the best way to beat a boss encounter is to kill it quickly. The faster it dies, the less likely someone is to mess up.

I guess what confuses me is why you see so much "Selene is garbage and I never use her" from people who have obviously never tried. In 95%+ of cases, Selene is going to win out, even on progression content.

[COSMIC_RENEGADE]

Depends on the dungeon and situation.
Do we need more Dps with support from Selene? Or do we need more heals from EOS?
I love the equally but my friends say EOS is like a goodie girl and Selene is the hardcore chick with a bunch of unmentionable variables.
So they'd rather do selene over eos. :< Poor EOS I still love her.

How bout both? hehe

[Nehael]

I use Both.

On Titan for instance, I start with Selene to help the global dps up.
Right after the heart is down, I instant cast Eos and use every CD she has. Once passed the first array of plume, I keep Eos up, but keep her under control with the steady mode.

[Shados]

*snip*

If selene actually increased dps, or actually made you cast faster, there would be a point to this. Obviously faster kills are better, no one will debate that. However, the increase is so small, that you cannot just say "If i chain cast spell for the duration I get a X% boost to dps". DoTs tick at 0.3, people's pings are often 0.1~, people are dodging during the duration and moving around, wasting part of it. At the end, in a fight like Titan, if you used her buffs perfectly the entire time, you'd be lucky if someone got a single extra cast off. And YOU might have been able to do more damage with your own spells if you didn't have to save someone's butt.

So realistically, Selene doesn't really add any more damage, and in the worse case, she might reduce it.

[Rainsford]

*snip*

I don't get this. You start by suggesting that she doesn't increase dps/make you cast faster, when it quite literally does. Are you arguing that someone with a 2.3 GCD will do identical DPS to someone with a 2.1 GCD?

Selene's buffs impact DPS more than the switch from i60 to i70 accessories. They are ~massive~ compared to the boost you get from food. Yet people still do both. Why is that?

Sure, DoT's tick every 3 seconds, but quicker cast time = they are up sooner. You get more casts in before having to refresh. There's no downside, only upside. And lag? Yea, ping is always there, but the quicker your cast time, the less likely you get caught in mechanics. If you want to talk about Titan, lower GCD's mean Gaols break faster. Heart dies quicker. The fight ends sooner. Sure, you need to move and lag is a factor, but a lower GCD means you have more time to avoid Plumes. Landslides aren't as likely to interrupt casts. Every .1 of a second I'm in front of you, it's less chance that I'll have to cancel a spell because of a mechanic.

Of course, you also need to consider that, in BC, the vast majority of the fights are spent stationary. When it comes to Turn 4, the extra skill or two everyone gets on the first Dread can be the difference between a win and a lose for a progression group. As someone who has done BC on both SCH and BLM, having Selene out makes my life significantly easier.

So realistically, Selene doesn't really add any more damage, and in the worse case, she might reduce it.

How do you come to this conclusion? How does adding a stat decrease your damage? Again, is player A with 500 Skill Speed going to do the same or less damage than player B with 625 Skill Speed?

And I feel like I quite thoroughly went over why, over the course of a fight, Selene's HPS gain is similar to or greater than Eos's. Pay attention when you're in BC or go watch some videos from a SCH's perspective. Watch as Eos just blows her CD's whenever she wants and yet there's never an issue. Even in Turn 4 examples where SCH's save FI for double dreads or WD for the final phase, it all goes into overheal.

Sorry if I came off abrassive, but when you're coming at it from a standpoint of "Selene may actually reduce damage", I'm sort of baffled. Of the wipes that don't happen because of mechanics (getting knocked off by landslides, people getting gibbed by Plumes, Allagan Rot, etc), I'm willing to say that nearly all of them happen because of failed DPS checks. Go plug the numbers into any damage formula, and it's tough to argue empirically that Selene isn't a noticeable improvement on DPS.

Of course, if you can give me an example of you failing a heal-check because you didn't have Eos's buff up, then I'd love for you to show me. If not, I'd appreciate a critical view of the two choices and a reason why you disagree aside from "Selene lowers damage."

[cainejw]

Just a note to those who come here, Rainsford is plugging this incredibly bad theorycrafting work as somehow proof that Selene is always better than Eos. As someone who has worked with and taught statistical analysis for a decade, do not buy it. There is no theorycrafting on faeries...

But thanks to Rainsford, I'm going to start.

[Wheels]

This is what makes everything confusing for players leveling sch. Right now i'm leveling sch and I like to read about the job as much as I can and understand the ins and outs of a job.

Reading posts like this make everything more dificult because there is no consensus in which is better. This leads me to think that both are ideal and i'll just have to try out what is best for me depending on the situation. I do thing however, for things like AK/WP selene will do a better job just to speed things up a little. Im coil however, i dont have much experience and will have to see for myself when I get there.

[Rainsford]

*snip(

I'm not sure what exactly you want. Tell me how you would improve upon it? You can't chart out healing like you can damage because spamming heals just gives you lots of overheal. I hear "Eos is better for heal intensive fights" a lot though, and it's just not the case. 20% for 8 casts over 2 minutes if you chain-cast heals is what Eos gives you for Coil content. That's the equivalent of 1.5 extra Physicks. Again, especially if you take overheal into account, Eos just isn't attractive.

For Selene, I'm using BLM as the example since that's what I have (and what I can personally test). My BLM has 466 Spell Speed. Using Purostriders chart, Fey Glow gives a 6% increase in damage.


Sure, the benefit will vary based on class, but a quicker skill activation rate brings other benefits that you can't put into numbers (a Monk keeping Greased Lightning up easier, a WHM getting a cast off before a follow-up attack that would kill a tank, etc). Why is there such a fetish with trading utility and damage for unnecessary heals?