Is Rage of Halone Overpowered in GLA/PLD's Kit?

[Ruminate]

As a side note, if Butcher's Block reduced STR by 10% and Rage of Halone did nothing, the 2 jobs would be much closer to being balanced in terms of durability.

It'd also be closer to what a final fantasy warrior is, rather than the current twilight vam- warrior.

[Kitru]

It's not that Rage of Halone is significantly overpowered or over budget, but that Butcher's Block is significantly underpowered/underbudget.

As the end of a 3 skill chain combo it has no real secondary effect other than the class mechanic (wrath) and the very minor potency increase (20 difference from Rage). If you look at pretty much any other job, their "end of combo" skills all have some significant bonus. (with the exception of maybe Full Thrust).

Honestly Butcher's Block should have some secondary effect.

It's not that Butcher's Block is strange because it doesn't have a secondary benefit beyond marginally increased damage; it's that only PLD really has a "primary" combo where the t3 bonus for that attack is anything except for increased damage (though it should be mentioned that RoH actually gets both substantially increased damage as well as a secondary benefit). Snap Punch is just 180 compared to the 130-150 that you get out of the Opo-opo and Raptor form attacks. Greased Lightning isn't unique to it, so that benefit has more in common with Wrath generation than the secondary effect of RoH. Full Thrust for DRG is the same way: straight up big damage with no secondary benefit.

Really, there's much stronger evidence that Rage of Halone is the outlier, as opposed to Butcher's Block. Though it's important to keep in mind what I said at the start of the thread: in order to mix up the PLD rotation with an "inferior" enmity attack that applies a debuff, you've gotta buff RoH's damage by a *crapload* to preserve the enmity/damage balance (and doing so would actually push up PLD damage by ~31 potency per GCD).

As a side note, if Butcher's Block reduced STR by 10% and Rage of Halone did nothing, the 2 jobs would be much closer to being balanced in terms of durability.

The only durability balance that it would really address it accounting for the Shield v. No Shield discrepancy. 10% STR isn't *nearly* large enough to make up for the straight up inferiority of Wrath and the WAR CD suite so you'd still have a *long* way to go even if you did swap it around.

[Judge_Xero]

RoH is a bit OP.

To compensate, Butcher's Block should get a 40 Potency DOT that recovers 100% of damage dealt for 10 seconds.

[Jubez187]

RoH is a bit OP.

To compensate, Butcher's Block should get a 40 Potency DOT that recovers 100% of damage dealt for 10 seconds.

Be that as it may, the thread was intended to discuss the power of RoH within the confines of the PAL's kit..not a PAL vs WAR haha

[KittenJitsu]

Add enmity increase in all PLD abilities! That alone would fix our boring combo rotation. If I try to cast shield swipe during trash pulls I run the risk of dropping agro to dps. I don't understand why they made it so difficult to maintain agro. I would love a little more freedom/breathing room to cast other abilities on trash pulls. Boss fights are usually not as bad because dps has to focus elsewhere while I keep agro on the boss. I am sure it will change when I hit 50 and gear up, but I still freak out when the BM bursts the target and I constantly play agro meter game with them.

[dark494]

Add enmity increase in all PLD abilities! That alone would fix our boring combo rotation. If I try to cast shield swipe during trash pulls I run the risk of dropping agro to dps. I don't understand why they made it so difficult to maintain agro. I would love a little more freedom/breathing room to cast other abilities on trash pulls. Boss fights are usually not as bad because dps has to focus elsewhere while I keep agro on the boss. I am sure it will change when I hit 50 and gear up, but I still freak out when the BM bursts the target and I constantly play agro meter game with them.

Shield swipe isn't a problem though. It does lots of damage, pacifies, and doesn't interrupt the combo rotation ( fast blade > savage blade > shield swipe > RoH is valid ).

[KittenJitsu]

Shield swipe isn't a problem though. It does lots of damage, pacifies, and doesn't interrupt the combo rotation ( fast blade > savage blade > shield swipe > RoH is valid ).

Sorry you misunderstand me. I wasn't trying to discredit our main combo. I simply want more options to hold threat than our one combo FB > SB > RoH. Yes shield swipe could be used before RoH but I risk losing agro in trash pulls or initial boss pulls. Rather than telling my dps to hold out 5 seconds, I would like to mindless zerg trash pulls and smash face with my shield and still maintain agro.

All I ask is add a little bit more enmity boost to our core class abilities. Maybe not as strong as SB or RoH, but a little more so I can start off with a SW or Shield Bash. It would help tremendously with adds when I can't cast my combo fast enough.

[Jubez187]

Shield swipe isn't a problem though. It does lots of damage, pacifies, and doesn't interrupt the combo rotation ( fast blade > savage blade > shield swipe > RoH is valid ).

Is it? I've been using it and I find it VERY useful. The pacification is not to be underlooked IMO. However, if you look at the "Paladin Tanking Compendium" thread or whatever..the author pretty much discredits any weapon skill that doesn't RoH combo (besides the opening shield lob).

[Kitru]

Is it? I've been using it and I find it VERY useful. The pacification is not to be underlooked IMO. However, if you look at the "Paladin Tanking Compendium" thread or whatever..the author pretty much discredits any weapon skill that doesn't RoH combo (besides the opening shield lob).

I've stopped using Shield Swipe mainly because it's not an effective enmity generator (not high enmity modifier) and, because it's proc based, you can't reliably use it to throw Pacification on a target when it would be most useful. Its got great damage for its cost (it provides 6.67 more potency per GCD than the Halone combo so it's not a massive increase in DPS), but it's a little too limited in its actual usefulness. I've contemplated putting it back on my bar to start tossing it in when I've gotten the infinite threat cushion of infinity 2-3 minutes into the fight, but, honestly, I don't really see much of point, especially since most bosses are outright immune to it (and all it stops are the physical special attacks, which are nowhere *near* the same proportion of incoming damage that they are for players).

[Jubez187]

I've stopped using Shield Swipe mainly because it's not an effective enmity generator (not high enmity modifier)

I wish they had Shield Oath give Shield Bash/Swipe/Toss all a enmity modifier/more of a enmity modifier. The 2 stances are pretty boring IMO.