Auto-attack is a step backward.

[Claire]

I don't see how auto-attack is a step backward. I for one enjoy talking to my party, and even as a quick typist, it is really pressing to communicate how it is now. Along with that, this will actually motivate people to use abilities since right now it's a rather big sacrifice giving up 1-2 attacks in exchange for a buff (for a 30 second battle nonetheless).

[Vanguard319]

I don't see how auto attack would benefit a class like archer at all. If anything, it will gimp the job.

Don't believe me? Look at arc's skillset, you won't be able to use Multishot to it's full potential because you will always fire before you have a chance to stack the full effect. Raging Strike, Hawk's Eye, Quelling Strike, and Scavenge will also be affected, as you will not be able to stack any of those skills like you can at present. When you are soloing, filling a target with arrows is the last thing you want to do when you are trying to bind a target, so the overall usefullness of Close shot and Shadowbind is gone, as you will unbind the target as soon as you auto attack.

In addition, arcs are heavily dependant on ammunition, once your quiver runs out, you are down to throwing rocks, which is only slightly better than doing no damage at all. As such, there may be times when you do not want to fire, such as when you have excess hate, or are hit with blindness, or another accuracy-down effect. Auto attack will just waste ammuntion, and with arrow prices as they are, it could make the cost of playing arc prohibitive on some servers.

I'm sure the pro-auto camp will say something like "they can set up arc like rng in FFXI." Unfortunately, that will not work because in FFXI, Rangers used either knives or axes as their main weapons, with the bow, crossbow, or gun treated as a sub-weapon. In FFXIV, your bow is your one and only weapon by default, meaning that it is subject to the same rules that govern melee weapons, which will include auto-attack once they add it. They may say "they can switch the bow to a sub-weapon." However, the class would no longer be an archer if they did that. It could also be that the developers intend to make ranged classes exempt from the feature, but I'm doubtful of that, since no mention of such was presented in Mr. Matsui's battle notes, or in yesterday's letter from Yoshi-P.

In the end, I'll have to wait and see how the devs set up the new battle engine, and whether or not it can do so without destroying archer's ability to solo or deal damage. I'm not so sure it can be done however.

[Demacia]

I don't see how auto attack would benefit a class like archer at all. If anything, it will gimp the job.

Don't believe me? Look at arc's skillset, you won't be able to use Multishot to it's full potential because you will always fire before you have a chance to stack the full effect. Raging Strike, Hawk's Eye, Quelling Strike, and Scavenge will also be affected, as you will not be able to stack any of those skills like you can at present. When you are soloing, filling a target with arrows is the last thing you want to do when you are trying to bind a target, so the overall usefullness of Close shot and Shadowbind is gone, as you will unbind the target as soon as you auto attack.

In addition, arcs are heavily dependant on ammunition, once your quiver runs out, you are down to throwing rocks, which is only slightly better than doing no damage at all. As such, there may be times when you do not want to fire, such as when you have excess hate, or are hit with blindness, or another accuracy-down effect. Auto attack will just waste ammuntion, and with arrow prices as they are, it could make the cost of playing arc prohibitive on some servers.

I'm sure the pro-auto camp will say something like "they can set up arc like rng in FFXI." Unfortunately, that will not work because in FFXI, Rangers used either knives or axes as their main weapons, with the bow, crossbow, or gun treated as a sub-weapon. In FFXIV, your bow is your one and only weapon by default, meaning that it is subject to the same rules that govern melee weapons, which will include auto-attack once they add it. They may say "they can switch the bow to a sub-weapon." However, the class would no longer be an archer if they did that. It could also be that the developers intend to make ranged classes exempt from the feature, but I'm doubtful of that, since no mention of such was presented in Mr. Matsui's battle notes, or in yesterday's letter from Yoshi-P.

In the end, I'll have to wait and see how the devs set up the new battle engine, and whether or not it can do so without destroying archer's ability to solo or deal damage. I'm not so sure it can be done however.

You raise a good point. Shame they had to fuck it up from the beginning with the whole bound to one weapon deal.

[Rhen]

I don't see how auto attack would benefit a class like archer at all. If anything, it will gimp the job.

Don't believe me? Look at arc's skillset, you won't be able to use Multishot to it's full potential because you will always fire before you have a chance to stack the full effect. Raging Strike, Hawk's Eye, Quelling Strike, and Scavenge will also be affected, as you will not be able to stack any of those skills like you can at present. When you are soloing, filling a target with arrows is the last thing you want to do when you are trying to bind a target, so the overall usefullness of Close shot and Shadowbind is gone, as you will unbind the target as soon as you auto attack.

In addition, arcs are heavily dependant on ammunition, once your quiver runs out, you are down to throwing rocks, which is only slightly better than doing no damage at all. As such, there may be times when you do not want to fire, such as when you have excess hate, or are hit with blindness, or another accuracy-down effect. Auto attack will just waste ammuntion, and with arrow prices as they are, it could make the cost of playing arc prohibitive on some servers.

I'm sure the pro-auto camp will say something like "they can set up arc like rng in FFXI." Unfortunately, that will not work because in FFXI, Rangers used either knives or axes as their main weapons, with the bow, crossbow, or gun treated as a sub-weapon. In FFXIV, your bow is your one and only weapon by default, meaning that it is subject to the same rules that govern melee weapons, which will include auto-attack once they add it. They may say "they can switch the bow to a sub-weapon." However, the class would no longer be an archer if they did that. It could also be that the developers intend to make ranged classes exempt from the feature, but I'm doubtful of that, since no mention of such was presented in Mr. Matsui's battle notes, or in yesterday's letter from Yoshi-P.

In the end, I'll have to wait and see how the devs set up the new battle engine, and whether or not it can do so without destroying archer's ability to solo or deal damage. I'm not so sure it can be done however.

Simple solution: auto-attack toggle. If you want to play like the old way, you can (especially in the case of arc), if you want to use auto attack (which really is more useful to melee) you can. Don't see how that would add anything detrimental to the game at all.

[Bled]

Simple solution: auto-attack toggle. If you want to play like the old way, you can (especially in the case of arc), if you want to use auto attack (which really is more useful to melee) you can. Don't see how that would add anything detrimental to the game at all.

You can not just simply put a toggle on auto attack and manual attack, too many variables change for that to be a viable solution.

[Vanguard319]

You can not just simply put a toggle on auto attack and manual attack to many variables change for that to be a viable solution.

Thanks for the input, while I don't object to the idea of a toggle, people seem to think that programming this stuff into the game without it conflicting with something else is easy, not so when you're talking about millions or hundreds of millions of lines of code.

[Vesperia]

SquareEnix doesn't have the network coders and MMO programming expertise to make a truly action-oriented combat system like FFXIII-Versus for an MMO, so the best they can do is put in auto attack and call it "strategy combat"

Ha.

Strategy based combat is another way of saying lazy developers.

[Bled]

SquareEnix doesn't have the network coders and MMO programming expertise to make a truly action-oriented combat system like FFXIII-Versus for an MMO, so the best they can do is put in auto attack and call it "strategy combat"

Ha.

Strategy based combat is another way of saying lazy developers.

They took the route of an easy buck; lazy is not synonyms of easy.

[Dubont]

SquareEnix doesn't have the network coders and MMO programming expertise to make a truly action-oriented combat system like FFXIII-Versus for an MMO, so the best they can do is put in auto attack and call it "strategy combat"

Ha.

Strategy based combat is another way of saying lazy developers.

Not exactly. An action-oriented combat system wouldn't really work for this game. To do such a system, they would have to essentially recode the entire game from the ground up. Mobs would have to change (Abilities, behavior, stats, everything), the battle system would have to be re-done AGAIN, UI would have to be re-done AGAIN, etc etc etc. This isn't the type of game for that type of battle system and it never was from the start. It doesn't mean that they have lazy developers, it just means that they didn't want that in the game.

[kukurumei]

SquareEnix doesn't have the network coders and MMO programming expertise to make a truly action-oriented combat system like FFXIII-Versus for an MMO, so the best they can do is put in auto attack and call it "strategy combat"

Ha.

Strategy based combat is another way of saying lazy developers.

considering versus is not out, no details of the battle system is revealed, nor can it ever approach the longevity of an MMO. Stop dumping shit and rational.

The biggest against Manual attack is a dumb AI.

Pattern Win, button mashing = win with carpal tunnel syndrome
Button Win, auto attacking = win without carpal tunnel syndrome

If you make a PvP oriented game where dumb AI bashing past time is replaced by a player that can see patterns and counter it, you can make a case.

FF14 has no PvP nor has interest in any reasonable time table. Reason battle system is crap and annoying instead of just crap.

AA goes a long way in making battles fun and strategic. Instead of more buttons, more thinking. You don't need more moves to make it more intelligent. In fact it brings intelligence down due to multi-tasking unnecessarily.