Order of the Blue Garter Twintania Down (No Exploits)

[HiirNoivl]

They should fix the Conflag-Sleep Bug already, it's getting laughable to just oneshot the conflag.. My static is trying to do it "the legit way" too but I'm getting mad just thinking about people abusing the conflags and getting past this phase LOL it shouldn't be that easy

Worrying is a poor use of the imagination. ^__^

[Liander]

However, if all content in FF is going to consist of finding uneven terrain points and mechanics that make you invincible in order to avoid boss skills...I'm not sure how long I'll be a raider or player here.

This is the crux of the matter. Right now the hardcore community is staring down the barrel of a six month window with no progression content if indeed Crystal Tower is lower ilvl and being made easier. Binding Coil has been a really easy instance, by far the easiest I've seen in an mmo, with Twintania being the icing on top one of the poorest implemented encounters. Despite what anyone says Twintania is not a healthy raid design and it really needs to be addressed so it does not happen again. So in the end what's to keep people around if this is the level of content we can expect from SE into the future? Sadly I don't see many ways for them to save their sinking ship at this point.

[Sylvanna]

This is the crux of the matter. Right now the hardcore community is staring down the barrel of a six month window with no progression content if indeed Crystal Tower is lower ilvl and being made easier. Binding Coil has been a really easy instance, by far the easiest I've seen in an mmo, with Twintania being the icing on top one of the poorest implemented encounters. Despite what anyone says Twintania is not a healthy raid design and it really needs to be addressed so it does not happen again. So in the end what's to keep people around if this is the level of content we can expect from SE into the future? Sadly I don't see many ways for them to save their sinking ship at this point.

Wildstar!

10char

[Onolock]

This is the crux of the matter. Right now the hardcore community is staring down the barrel of a six month window with no progression content if indeed Crystal Tower is lower ilvl and being made easier. Binding Coil has been a really easy instance, by far the easiest I've seen in an mmo, with Twintania being the icing on top one of the poorest implemented encounters. Despite what anyone says Twintania is not a healthy raid design and it really needs to be addressed so it does not happen again. So in the end what's to keep people around if this is the level of content we can expect from SE into the future? Sadly I don't see many ways for them to save their sinking ship at this point.

I think there are plenty of us that share this same sentiment. 2.2 is very far off, and these Twintania bugs have been around since launch with only one being fixed, and new ones popping up with the maintenance done to Twintania. I want the raiding scene to not fizzle out like every other game does because of horrible fight designs and boss breaking exploits.

[Senzura]

Binding Coil has been a really easy instance, by far the easiest I've seen in an mmo

Hate to put thoughts in your head, but, you ONLY think this because you've gotten good and managed to beat it. Thats it. There is no debate. A couple months ago, people were talking about how difficult it was, how it MUST be bugged and it MUST be poorly tuned because its so hard. NORMAL TITAN WAS THOUGHT TO BE BUGGED WHEN PEOPLE STARTED TO REACH IT. BG took quite a bit of time to beat the FIRST ADS ENCOUNTER. Everyone was talking about how the DPS to beat turn 4 didn't exist. Then they talked about how conflags we're impossible. Divebombs are bugged. Twisters are bugged, for real this time.

Just like in WoW, the only hard content is that which you have not beaten. Just like all games, you get better over time. Remember that game you could NEVER beat when you were a kid, but now just BREEZE through it? The game is hard, but you just got good.

[Req]

Snip

I don't remember anyone talking about any of the things you mentioned, things must be different on your server. I don't go to Reddit or anything either, so I guess I am not up to date with the community as a whole, but I know ALOT of people on my server in pretty much every end game free company save a few, and I don't know of any of them thinking that anything was particularly difficult. The group I got through Titan with, which took us 2 days and in which we all agreed shouldn't have even taken us that long went into Bahamut's coil and tried out ADS and the strategy to beat it was pretty apparent from like the first 3 tries of the fight because it was so choreographed it was laughable. We took a break from any sort of BC progression to make sure our gear was up to par and whatnot for about a week and went in and got to turn 5 by the end of the night of Friday that week with our only experience of BC up that point being the few attempts we did of ADS at 4 am. This was back towards the beginning of September, and I never felt like any of the content had been challenging up until Twintania, and the only part of that fight I find difficult is the battle with server latency. Anyone who thinks fights are bugged because they are getting hit by things they are not supposed to be misunderstand the issue at large, and it simply the fact that SE does not know how to implement a proper server structure for the kind of fights they want to design. It is leaps and bounds better than it was in 1.0, but it is still pretty mediocre by anyone's standards that isn't an SE fanatic and want to look past the flaws as if this is the greatest MMO of all time. I think that that is the biggest issue behind the twister and why people were saying it is bugged. It is a mechanic that requires very tight movement requirements and even if you program a computer to do the exact same thing to get out of it every single time as soon as she starts using the ability, it will not get out of it 100% of the time. This is true for everything that requires moving out of the way in this game, the server infrastructure is not up to par with the kind of things that they want you to do, and even the best players will get hit by shit they shouldn't have occasionally.

This adds huge problems when you are trying to figure out how the mechanic works, because you are spending about 7-8 minutes trying to get there, and then you are trying random things that may or may not work due to sever latency, such as running in a straight line and it dropping the twister behind you, which is clearly not how the mechanic was intended to work. Even further complicating this issue is that everyone was hush hush about the things they had tried up until that twisters strategy thread was posted because everyone wanted to get world first, so there was absolutely no communication between anyone other than the assumption that pretty much everything had been tried with no success so clearly there is an issue with the way the fight was programmed.

To sum up that entire wall of text, the fight themselves aren't bugged, they are just poorly designed for the server structure that SE has implemented, because they aren't taking into account that the server checks your position in such a shitty manner that it allows things like our tank getting clipped by a divebomb last night haflway across the arena, launched into the fetters and had a chance to walk 2/3 of the way back to us before it detected he had touched the wall and got one shotted.

[Liander]

I missed this large outcry of binding being hard and I've read pretty much every post in the discussion thread, so not sure where you're getting that. I remember typing the kill post to our first cadeus kill when we were doing it in ak green gear. I had to double back and nerf my own post to say how easy it would be with any amount of gear upgrades. That has been proven with people clearing 1-4 in thirty minutes. In WoW even when things were on farm you at least had to pay half attention to the fight. You don't for any of the mechanics in binding outside turn 5 and those only require only a little thought.

As for divebombs and twister being bugged, to qoute myself "The only two hindrences were divebomb which is still bugged, I dont believe making twintania fly off the stage is how they intended the fight, and twister which is still bugged, you live even if you're not doing it "correctly"." They're beatable, but still bugged in implementation.

[Eronn]

Hate to put thoughts in your head, but, you ONLY think this because you've gotten good and managed to beat it. Thats it. There is no debate. A couple months ago, people were talking about how difficult it was, how it MUST be bugged and it MUST be poorly tuned because its so hard. NORMAL TITAN WAS THOUGHT TO BE BUGGED WHEN PEOPLE STARTED TO REACH IT. BG took quite a bit of time to beat the FIRST ADS ENCOUNTER. Everyone was talking about how the DPS to beat turn 4 didn't exist. Then they talked about how conflags we're impossible. Divebombs are bugged. Twisters are bugged, for real this time.

Just like in WoW, the only hard content is that which you have not beaten. Just like all games, you get better over time. Remember that game you could NEVER beat when you were a kid, but now just BREEZE through it? The game is hard, but you just got good.

No, it is really an easy instance (myself being in Liander's group). We got to Turn 5 with people still sporting a number of greens from AK. None of us thought there were bugs/mechanic issues with the first four Turn, other then curiosity as to the purpose of Turn 3. I am completely fine with the first instance being easy, and I really hope that Crystal Tower brings something interesting. Twintania is a perfectly fine fight on paper, decent mechanics for a last boss of a patch. The implementation however is miserable, and the lack of responsiveness from SE is troubling. I get that this is a new game, and understand that it is difficult launching a game and attending to issues like this. I am hoping though they step up their game in their future content.

I really like this game and really want it to succeed, which is partially why I am so disappointed in Twintania.

[Penguin]

In WoW even when things were on farm you at least had to pay half attention to the fight.

I dunno man i played WoW for 5 years and other than usually the final bosses of instances or the odd boss that had interesting mechanics i remember farm clears being extremely boring and easy, especially when you were geared enough, infact i don't remember clearing an instance in WoW that didn't immediately get cleared in 1 day the next reset.

[Liander]

I dunno man i played WoW for 5 years and other than usually the final bosses of instances or the odd boss that had interesting mechanics i remember farm clears being extremely boring and easy, especially when you were geared enough, infact i don't remember clearing an instance in WoW that didn't immediately get cleared in 1 day the next reset.

True enough given enough gear you could burn though them easily. But with binding you outgeared the fights in ilvl 70 gear, by SE's own admission, that's two tiers of gear below being fully outfitted in coil item gear. That's a problem.