WAR fix: Storm's Path comb

[Sybreed]

I don't see why they don't just make Inner Beast a Death Strike clone (provides a damage absorbing shield equal to 300% of the damage done, instead of a heal).

[Gamemako]

How about we just make all healing based on maximum HP % and call it a day. It scales with incoming damage in different way than PLD's mitigation but it does scale better than scaling with our own damage.

No, it doesn't. HP and damage scale roughly equally; you just dumped all your efforts into pumping VIT and therefore have lower damage. And no, scaling off max HP will do absolutely nothing to alleviate WAR's troubles. The problem is that WAR doesn't scale to content. 8-player content yields twice the damage rate of 4-player content and half the relative efficacy of self-heals -- this is totally independent of the stat from which you scale WAR's self-healing.

I don't see why they don't just make Inner Beast a Death Strike clone (provides a damage absorbing shield equal to 300% of the damage done, instead of a heal).

Death Strike is only 1/3 shield, is it not? Additionally, a shield will do precious little for WAR because your ability would still not scale to content. WAR really needs abilities which scale to content. This does not necessarily mean Inner Beast itself, either; as I demonstrated previously, Inner Beast isn't really where WAR is falling behind.

[Sybreed]

Death Strike is only 1/3 shield, is it not? Additionally, a shield will do precious little for WAR because your ability would still not scale to content. WAR really needs abilities which scale to content. This does not necessarily mean Inner Beast itself, either; as I demonstrated previously, Inner Beast isn't really where WAR is falling behind.

I can't recall, I haven't played WoW since mid Cata (at which time I was a DK tank). All I can remember was that DS could be made to hit pretty hard, and it would heal you based on the damage, and then ALSO give you a shield. I messed that up in the post you quoted, but was too lazy to change it; I meant inner beast should heal AND give an absorb shield. Although I do realize Inner Beast isn't the low man on the totem pole for us as is, and even that fix wouldn't be enough. But the absorb shield could buffer the loss of the 15% healing from wrath stacks while you built them back up.

[Vactus]

I don't see why they don't just make Inner Beast a Death Strike clone (provides a damage absorbing shield equal to 300% of the damage done, instead of a heal).

So instead of a 1200-1300 heal it's a bubble? Nice in that it lets us burn IB more often to prevent overheal, but it's still not enough to offset the suddent loss of Wrath Stacks. That's one change that I like, but would still need to be supported by a few others. Our CD's are just very lackluster.

[mcfuzzi]

Just a few spitball ideas:

BloodBath: 20% hp healed over 20 seconds 90 second cooldown Off global cooldown does upto a 300 potency attak, the lower your hp the better the attack

Stormspath: combos with overpower aoe cone up to 5 targets each target hit restores 1% of your hp grants 1 stack of wrath

Berserk: increases damage by 50% not attack power

IB: restores 20% of your health (that maybe op?)

Foresight: Creates a shield that is equal to 10% of your health (it could block all of that up front, or could reduce incoming dmg by a percent until that shield is used up Not sure what would work better)

fracture: 100 potency attack causes paralyze last 10 seconds.

[KogaDrake]

have not read much here, but adding more heals to combo paths with no emnity generation would really only cause more issues in the long run as we would either do as we do now and tank without taking advantage of this extra heals but for once in a great while, or start having threat issues as we take advantage of extra healing.

Point is in fights where WAR have issues we are taking so much dmg and so much threat from DPS burn and healing around we cant do many combos with no threat or we will have other issues. Fights where we have more than enough time to do many other combos because they do not have the major DPS/healing threat to compete with we don't need a boost.

[Azrienov]

You could always convert a couple of WAR healing moves into damage bubbles, or making them AoE heals. This gives an assist to healers without stepping on their toes.

The absorbed HP could instead generate temporary HP that is on timer when the WAR over heals on an attack like Inner Beast. This Temp HP could then be combo'd with things like Stoneskin, and Scholar abilities. This would give WAR the capability to build up it's tanking potential.

Or you could make HP absorb generate small enmity, with a substantial empowerment from Defiance. Most of the theorycraft I've seen on it says "No, it doesn't." when it comes to the threat generation. With this done, PLD doesn't get another massive advantage over WAR and BB doesn't become useless for DPS who use it in dungeons. Apply the enmity like a heal, with hate being garnered for all mobs.

This all in 5 minutes of thinking. There are 10,000 ways to solve the same problem. There isn't a "Best Way." because new ideas are generated all the time.

[Gamemako]

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=77513

Worth noting, in any case, that Death Strike heals 20% of damage received in the past 5 seconds, and Blood Shield gives a portion of that as a shield. Death Strike itself is not a shield, and only some portion of the total effect (after Blood Shield) is a shield. (Note that I don't really know how abilities scale anymore because I haven't played WoW in ages.)

They more than likely will also need passive mitigation tied to Defiance.

I don't see any way around it, honestly. Try to make all mitigation active and Berserk pacification or any kind of stun would be a death sentence to poor WAR.

Also, wrath stacks should be usable at any stack, but the damage and healing would obviously have to scale based on the amount of stacks.

That, or abilities should cost different numbers of stacks instead of being all-or-none. Lots of ways you could do it, I guess.

[Phreak]

I don't see any way around it, honestly. Try to make all mitigation active and Berserk pacification or any kind of stun would be a death sentence to poor WAR.

Just give us a trait that allows WARs to take 20-40% less damage while stunned/pacified/incapacitated.

[Kitru]

This all in 5 minutes of thinking. There are 10,000 ways to solve the same problem. There isn't a "Best Way." because new ideas are generated all the time.

None of those ideas would actually do anything to alleviate WAR problems. Giving WAR some support healing for the rest of the group doesn't make them better tanks; it would just make them marginally more attractive if they *could* tank at the same level as PLD (which they can't, at the moment). Providing temp hp doesn't actually do anything to reduce incoming damage. All it does is allow you to survive a single blow. The problem with WAR isn't in surviving the single blow; it's in the amount of healing required over time and in high throughput damage scenarios, neither of which would be addressed by arbitrarily increasing max hp by a comparatively small amount without increasing healing received. Causing self healing to generate enmity wouldn't do anything *either* because it's not like enmity is any kind of problem for WARs; damage/enmity is one of the few things about the tanks that is *exceptionally* well balanced.

Your 5 minutes of thinking amounted to absolutely no real useful ideas. Claiming that there are 10000 ways to solve the same problem just demonstrates that you don't even know what the problem actually is.

The problem is not that WAR self heals are wasted or that WARs don't generate enough enmity. The problem is threefold:

WARs require too much external healing because the devs screwed up and didn't realize that the self heals they implemented scale with outgoing damage rather than *incoming* damage and incoming damage and outgoing damage scale in completely different ways
WARs have a *dramatically* inferior CD suite compared to PLDs thanks to it relying on static self-healing while also just having *way* weaker CDs (the strongest WAR CD, Convalescence, which is, ironically enough, a GLA CD that they borrow that PLD actually gets a stronger version of, is numerically weaker than the weakest PLD CD, Rampart).
Wrath's passive benefits and consumption benefits operate in contradiction of one another rather than in support of one another

The only effective solutions are going to be those that directly address the problems rather than those that try to address problems that don't actually exist:
WAR self healing needs to scale with incoming damage so that it actually matches the performance of the flat mitigation that PLD gets
The WAR CD suite needs a complete and utter overhaul that involves buffing pretty much every single unique WAR tanking CD so that it doesn't end up just making PLD stronger
Wrath's passive benefits and consumption benefits need to be overhauled by increasing and stabilizing passive benefits and improving the consumption benefits so that you're no longer shooting yourself in the foot by actually using your Wrath stacks as intended instead of just letting them sit there

There may not be a single "Best Way", but that's not the same as "all ideas are good ideas". Of the 10000 ways to solve the same problem that you refer to, 9900 of them aren't going to actually solve the problem because they avoided the problem completely.