WAR fix: Storm's Path comb

[Hulk_Smash]

Blocking alone makes Paladin better than Warrior.
What Warrior needs is proper mitigation, it doesn't need work on a flawed mechanic.

Blocking alone does make Paladin better, but are you suggesting that the flawed mechanic of self heals shouldn't even be addressed? If not self healing, then what should WAR's mechanics be? Blocking, and pally like CD's? If thats the case, what would be the point of playing as a Warrior now, or in the future? Perhaps all WAR's should become pally's and just abandon all hope.

[Shuon]

How about instead of adding more healing to Warrior, which is a band aid to an artery wound, we give Warriors better CD's that provide actual mitigation, and equivalent to Hallowed ground.

No. Because warrior is not a paladin.

[Leiron]

Blocking alone does make Paladin better, but are you suggesting that the flawed mechanic of self heals shouldn't even be addressed? If not self healing, then what should WAR's mechanics be? Blocking, and pally like CD's? If thats the case, what would be the point of playing as a Warrior now, or in the future? Perhaps all WAR's should become pally's and just abandon all hope.

Your choice, be effective, or be mediocre.
As it stands, the healing mechanic will NOT work at all.
Damage scales far more quickly than the self healing does, and the self healing mechanic presents a problem in groups due to the fact that overhealing is wasted healing.

No. Because warrior is not a paladin.

Brilliant counter.
I love it when im on my Warrior, struggling to survive, and paladin just pops Hallowed ground and is immune for 10s.
Seriously, any single one of a Paladin's cooldowns are infinitely better than a Warrior's due to the way scaling of damage/healing/hp occurs in this game.

[Hulk_Smash]

Your choice, be effective, or be mediocre.
As it stands, the healing mechanic will NOT work at all.

Perhaps I will chose to be mediocre. Looking at your profile, I see that you have both a warrior and pally. You seriously want the warrior to be just a pally clone?
The healing mechanic does work, it just doesn't work very well. That is the point of this thread, suggestions on improving the healing through use of warrior's abilities. I know the forums are flooded with how much pally's are better than war's. Yes, I understand, and am not denying that Pally outshines WAR at endgame content. With all that said, I personally don't want warriors to be pally clones

[Leiron]

Perhaps I will chose to be mediocre. Looking at your profile, I see that you have both a warrior and pally.

I always find it annoying when people look at a profile, as if it that determines understanding or provides worthwhile information other than supporting some, nonsensical and baseless assumption, but do go on.

You seriously want the warrior to be just a pally clone?

You seriously suggesting the heal mechanics as they are currently, can at all be deemed effective?
You do realize that if you are to make Warrior healing effective, you essentially would need to buff it to the point that healing becomes less and less useful, to the point that it would need to be overpowered to be useful.
Even if you do make it a percentile based heal; which since you are so keen to peek at profiles you'd have seen this suggestion; you fall into the problem that it would be contributing to overhealing.
Overhealing = healing that is useless.

This would result in Paladin STILL being preferred, and require more coordination than what is needed with Paladin.
We don't want that, we want them to both be just as equally desired as the other.
Furthermore, having mitigation is what is NEEDED.
Mitigation scales with content, flat healing does not.
Its like putting a bandaid on someone when they lost their whole arm.

Not effective at all.
Mitigation does work. it is effective.
As long as the METHOD in which Warrior does it is different, then it isn't a clone.
To suggest that having mitigation makes Warrior a clone is the same as suggesting all the DPS' classes are clones because they all do damage.
What is different is HOW they put the damage out, not just the fact they do damage.

Warrior needs two things

A. Better cooldowns
B. Better passive mitigation

How this is implemented can be done in various ways.

The healing mechanic does work, it just doesn't work very well.

That means it doesn't work.
Which is the exact thing I said earlier.

That is the point of this thread, suggestions on improving the healing through use of warrior's abilities. I know the forums are flooded with how much pally's are better than war's. Yes, I understand, and am not denying that Pally outshines WAR at endgame content. With all that said, I personally don't want warriors to be pally clones

Except they would not be clones.
Christ whenever anyone hears something remotely similar such as mitigatino, the think, OMG CLONES.

No.

Look at RIFT.
All of the tanks have similar mitigation/cooldowns/hp pools.
They all play differently however.
This is the same with their melee classes.
THey all do the same job, equally, but differently.


For example, this is one of my suggestions to provide mitigation n a unique way.

Inner beast: Creates a shield that absorbs 5% of all damage, up to 300% of the Warrior's maximum health.
Alternatively, you can put it with Steel cyclone; which should have an enmity modifier since its a defiance activated ability.
Inner beast can restore 20% of the Warrior's health. Or 15%.

ALl of them still relying on the wrath mechanic.


But frankly, altering the healing a Warrior does will NOT work period.

[RapBreon]

equivalent to Hallowed ground.

Of all the flawed mechanics I can think of the top of my head; an on demand-invuln, is usually, the worst of them. It's just a stupid mechanic, especially if it lasts a long-time.

It either needs to work on mechanics, then it's OP, or it needs to be penetrated by mechanics to make it not OP. Thus, essentially reducing it to a crutch to survive mechanics that otherwise should be survivable by proper skill-orientated means. There is no continuum for tuning something like that (besides duration and cooldown, which then convolutes the issue even more); so it either works and makes everybody who doesn't have it mad, or it doesn't and make everybody does have it mad.

Don't give WAR's that stupid move (which apparently is contributing to making encounter design sooooooooo hard), remove it from the game. And never look back. This is one of those times where it necessitates nerfing over buffing if you ask me.

Ultimately, I do agree with you about everything else though. There is a massive communication problem between the class devs and the content devs.

[Chiraisu]

How about instead of adding more healing to Warrior, which is a band aid to an artery wound, we give Warriors better CD's that provide actual mitigation, and equivalent to Hallowed ground.

Yes. Make paladin like warrior. Because that fixes the problem and gives the illusion that they are the same tank, whicch wouldn't make anyone play it anyway. The nature of the beast is this: Tanks need different tanking mechanics. If every tank was a mitigation tank, there would be no point, other than cosmetics, to play any other tank. That in my opinion is stupid. Warrior in this game is a self healing, high HP tank that's survival is directly dependent on how much damage he is able to do. (so he can heal it back)

Edit for length increase

On an edit. I would like to state a few other things. While it is clear that their self heals do not scale well with the content, and the damage taken out runs the self healing by leaps and bounds, there "can" be ways around this. Ways such as freedom of health. The HP bar is as solid as you make it in a game. Providing Warrior's with better manipulation of said HP can make it a fun class, give it relevance, and set it a part from paladin in mechanics only, not power.

A way to do this is add a hallowed ground counter part. A move that keeps the warrior from falling below 1 HP for a duration. Sure, it may not be perfect invulnerability, but it is a crutch all it's own.

Another way to produce effective self healing is to add more to what HP is capable of doing. Place modifiers that increase the lower Your HP is. This increases the potency of heals in situations that become dire as the fight proceeds. Example: Inner Beast heals for 200% of the damage dealt and increases by amount healed by X% of missing health. this gives it great synergy with the previously mentioned unnamed ability I spoke of.

Make thrill of battle better: The temporary HP is a great idea in my opinion, work more on it. Maybe even give Defiance an active buff (of 5-10 seconds) that increases your max HP For the amount healed back, up to a cap or based on a percent. this would help cushion the overhealing and allow them to survive more burst, instead of melting in the face of it.

I'm not sure why this isn't already a mechanic, but make wrath stacks effect healing done by actions and abilities. The fact that warrior's own mechanic doesn't work with itself is silly. Syngery is key here, and Warrior doesn't have it much.

I'm pretty sure not making foresight into a parry buff was intended. I believe they have that plan reserved for a future tank, and that's fine. Personally the defense increase of foresight is a nice and welcome trait, but the %age and cool down are far too broken. 20% is not enough to combat Rampart, and the cooldown is longer to boot.

However I will say this as a closing statement. I don't completely shove away the idea of putting mitigation on Warrior. I just don't want it to be a centrifugal part of the mechanics of it. Storm's Path in beta WAS a dmg shield. based on percent. I liked that better than the borderline useless skill it is now. Keep that, it was nice. Also, give Rampart to warrior as a cross class ability, God knows they can do worse. Without the gladiator trait, rampart's mitigation is only 10%. Not so bad right? just give it to them.

[Karashney]

Now something to look into would getting rid of Butcher's Block and replacing that with Storm's Path, making the heal possibly a percentage of max health, and maybe use Wrath as a way to INCREASE the healing from Storm's Path. Each stack of wrath could increase a bigger percentage and at max you could maybe get off a very large heal. Rework Inner Beast to be more of an "Uh-oh" button, making it a blanket damage reduction and healing increase healing CD (because Warriors are like berserkers and can use their inner beast to be more ferocious and take less damage blah blah blah). I dunno, I literally came up with that as I was typing this so there could be a huge flaw in the design that I'm missing, but the point is that a self-healing tank is entirely doable.
Self healing is not a flawed mechanic, but the execution of it here is. Giving Warrior blanket mitigation CDs in not the way to go here. Increasing the healing ratios and diversifying the ways a warrior can heal IS the way to go.

[Karashney]

As a side note, let's be real here, who is doing end game content and not coordinating with their healers anyway? As a tank I usually call out when I'm using a mitigation CD of some sort, it's just gotten to be a habit to better coordinate with the healers and let them know that they can possibly ease off of the healing, maybe heal up the group, etc. So the argument of over-healing really holds no water here.

[kasuke06]

why not give war a different kind of active mitigation? say that our combo enders(block, path, the other one that I can't remember right now) put up a shield that absorbs incoming damage relative to the damage done?

we keep the heals from other moves, and foresight instead of 25% defense becomes a shield composed of 25% of your health. more defensive, not a paladin, and it scales well with how warriors tank. Maybe rework steel cyclone to provide a shield for 10% of your HP per enemy hit.

WAR becomes about stacking health so you can block more with your attacks. still no percentage reductions, and we can still self heal like a boss. though, that might make us OP.