The Black Mage Rotations

[Synovius]

Since we're posting rotations here's mine..

Single Target:
Thunder III (ticks longer for more damage) ---> Fire III ---> Fire (recast until 300mp) ---> Swiftcast ---> Flare ---> Convert ---> Fire ---> Blizzard III ---> Thunder III ---> Fire III ---> Fire (until 100mp) ---> Blizzard III and then repeat from beginning.

I see no point in casting Blizzard III before Fire III because by the time this rotation ends, 90% of the time I have the Fire III proc and cast it for nothing after going from Blizzard III ---> Thunder III ---> Fire III (free immediate cast). Not to mention Fire III is a 1.5 second cast coming from Blizzard III so its more efficient IMO.

Good post, KyteStones! A couple things I would point out:

1) Thunder III, while doing more damage because it ticks longer, also takes 0.5s longer to cast, costs more mana, and what I've found is that it's clunky in the rotation for this reason. The 2.5s cast of Thunder II fits nicely so that when you are casting your Fire III before starting Fire I spam, you just got your last tick of mana so you're back to full. What you'll notice about using Thunder III instead is that, assuming you're fluidly going through your rotation, when you cast your Fire III, you will get your last tick of mana at the very start of this cast and, because of this, when Fire III actually casts, it will actually charge you roughly 100 mana instead of being free. This is very problematic because when you get down to the bottom of the rotation, after your Fire I spam, your last Fire I will likely have to be cast when you are BELOW 1000 mana meaning that you will not be able to get your Thunder cast off on-time after Blizzard III (you'll have to wait a half to full second for a tick of mana.

2) The reason I open with Blizzard III ==> Thunder II is two-fold: one, it gives the tank a bit more time to get sufficient aggro but still allows me to do some damage and, two, if you cast Blizzard III first then your Thunder II and Fire III are both free since you'll get a tick of mana as you cast Fire III putting you back to full.

[KyteStones]

Good post, KyteStones! A couple things I would point out:

1) Thunder III, while doing more damage because it ticks longer, also takes 0.5s longer to cast, costs more mana, and what I've found is that it's clunky in the rotation for this reason. The 2.5s cast of Thunder II fits nicely so that when you are casting your Fire III before starting Fire I spam, you just got your last tick of mana so you're back to full. What you'll notice about using Thunder III instead is that, assuming you're fluidly going through your rotation, when you cast your Fire III, you will get your last tick of mana at the very start of this cast and, because of this, when Fire III actually casts, it will actually charge you roughly 100 mana instead of being free. This is very problematic because when you get down to the bottom of the rotation, after your Fire I spam, your last Fire I will likely have to be cast when you are BELOW 1000 mana meaning that you will not be able to get your Thunder cast off on-time after Blizzard III (you'll have to wait a half to full second for a tick of mana.

2) The reason I open with Blizzard III ==> Thunder II is two-fold: one, it gives the tank a bit more time to get sufficient aggro but still allows me to do some damage and, two, if you cast Blizzard III first then your Thunder II and Fire III are both free since you'll get a tick of mana as you cast Fire III putting you back to full.

i see where you're coming from, but taking advantage to the server delay on the mana recharge, after the first initial rotation, you should be at full mana pretty much 99% of the time at the restart of the rotation. Keep in mind that while under AF III, Blizzard only costs 75MP. If spamming the Fire, then immediately spamming Blizzard III key you have, about .7 seconds before the spell goes off you're at a 80% recharge, which my the end of Thunder III, while you're in your 1.5 sec fire III cast, UI will have topped you off causing your Fire III to cost nothing. In reference to your statement about not being able to cast off on time to get the mana tick, I have never had this issue. After the first rotation, I am always topped off at the beginning of the next rotation set unless I manage to not pay attention and dispell too much mana screwing the rotation.

[Mecan]

From what I can gather of this thread KyteStones is that Synovius and PessimiStick just like to talk a lot, yet don't exactly offer any good advice or seem to really understand the finer things of Black Mages. Quite sad to see this thread be more like a pissing contest of 'whose the better Black Mage'. There really hasn't been any constructive discussion, especially when I provide a very clearly presented post and both of them just breeze over it calling it "fluff" just because it goes against their current thinking. You cannot argue with such people because they already think they know it all. You cannot teach someone who thinks they know it all.

[PessimiStick]

From what I can gather of this thread KyteStones is that Synovius and PessimiStick just like to talk a lot, yet don't exactly offer any good advice or seem to really understand the finer things of Black Mages. Quite sad to see this thread be more like a pissing contest of 'whose the better Black Mage'. There really hasn't been any constructive discussion, especially when I provide a very clearly presented post and both of them just breeze over it calling it "fluff" just because it goes against their current thinking. You cannot argue with such people because they already think they know it all. You cannot teach someone who thinks they know it all.

Want to change people's minds? Post math that proves your case. I did, you didn't.

[Doogsi]

From what I can gather of this thread KyteStones is that Synovius and PessimiStick just like to talk a lot, yet don't exactly offer any good advice or seem to really understand the finer things of Black Mages.....

I'm sure we can all agree that you're the only one pissing here and making no points. Synovius introduced many of us to a new more powerful rotation. PessimiStick just backed his proposal with numbers. You come along and basically call them nubs and say your rotations are better even though we've already proved them inferior. Go back to your group and let them continue carrying you. We care not for your subjective advice. Have a nice day.

[PessimiStick]

So rather than do a ton of trials to weed out RNG, I figured we can just theorycraft this since it's pretty straightforward.
I'm going to ignore the cast time of the initial F3 here, and assume F3 is always cast from UI3
Hardcast F2 = 1.2 GCDs
Hardcast Flare = 1.6 GCDs
Everything else is 1 GCD to cast

Rotation #1: F3 --> Flare --> Transpose --> B2 --> B2
1 + 1 (doubledip) + 0.7 (average time you expect to wait for a mana tick after transpose -- 1/2 GCD + transpose animation delay) + 1 + 1 = 4.7 GCDs
220s * 0.7 + 260 * 1.8 + 0 + 100 + 100 = 154 ST and 668 AE Potency
32.8 ST P/GCD, 142.1 AE P/GCD

Rotation #2: F3 --> F2 x3 (this is what I can always cast) --> Flare --> Transpose --> B2 --> B2
1 + 1 (doubledip) + 1.2 + 1.2 + 1.6 + 0.7 + 1 + 1 = 8.7 GCDs
154s + 180 + 180 + 180 + 468 + 0 + 100 + 100 = 154 STP and 1208 AEP
17.7 ST P/GCD, 138.9 AE P/GCD

Pure Flare seems to be the clear winner, plus you get cooler animations.
Also, for the purposes of WP, rotation #3: F3 --> Flare --> B3
1 + 1 + 0.5 + 1 = 3.5 GCDs (The 0.5 is from the expected time for a mana tick from Mage's Ballad so that you can cast B3)
154s + 468 + 154s = 308 STP, 468 AEP
88 ST P/GCD, 133.7 AE P/GCD

In order for this to be better than Rotation #1, you'd need to have Ballad tick in less than 0.3 GCDs. I don't actually know whether that's realistic or not, would require a LOT of in-game testing with video/stopwatch, since I don't think the Combat Log has enough granularity to tell otherwise (if mana gain is even shown).

[Youmu]

Also, for the purposes of WP, rotation #3: F3 --> Flare --> B3
1 + 1 + 0.5 + 1 = 3.5 GCDs (The 0.5 is from the expected time for a mana tick from Mage's Ballad so that you can cast B3)
154s + 468 + 154s = 308 STP, 468 AEP
88 ST P/GCD, 133.7 AE P/GCD

In order for this to be better than Rotation #1, you'd need to have Ballad tick in less than 0.3 GCDs.

0.3 GCDs is roughly .75 second and mages ballad is every 1 second, meaning you're running a 75% chance of getting your mana tick in under 0.3 GCDs. The calculation should be 1+1+(0.1~0.4)+1 = 3.1~3.4 GCDs. You're methodology is flawed however, in that it doesnt take into account neither the increased single target DPS P/GCD weighed into the overall DPS, or the large returns on crit rate as average damage increases (1 int = 3.5 crit or more when average damage > 744), most notably by eliminating blizzard2 hits.

My, how this thread has went the last few days. Dont reply for 2 days and suddenly everyones bashing my rotation based off someones incorrect math.

[EasymodeX]

Oh ok, it looks like the fundamental mechanic is getting the Flare cast enhanced from UI3, resulting in an overall better cycle.

[Lgalang]

Ill just post my Rotation.

Single Target
Thunder II > Fire III > Fire I (Fire III on Firestarter) > less than 1k MP Blizzard III repeat

Single Target w/ Flare
Thunder II > Fire III > Fire I (Fire III on Firestarter) > 1k MP fire if (Firestarter proc ignore) > Swiftcast > Flare > (Fire III on the ignored one) Transpose > Blizzard III repeat

Single Target w/ Flare and Convert
Thunder II > Fire III > Fire I (Fire III on Firestarter) > 1k MP fire if (Firestarter proc ignore) > Raging Strikes > Swiftcast > Flare > (Fire III on the ignored one) > Convert > Fire I (Fire III on Firestarter) > Blizzard III repeat

Multi Target
Fire III > Fire II (till drain MP) > Swiftcast > Flare > Transpose > Blizzard III repeat
*Ignore Flare without Swiftcast

Thats my combo if you dont like it, dont use it.

[EasymodeX]

Rotation #1: F3 --> Flare --> Transpose --> B2 --> B2

So I guess I have a basic BLM mechanics question: in terms of mana recovery, is the 2x B2 necessary to guarantee a reliable MP tick sufficient to begin casting the F3? Because it seems to be that if Flare blows all your mana, it doesn't matter how much you re-enter Astral with, and could get by with 1 B2 cast as long as you are able to cast F3.

Or is that really to wait for the Transpose cooldown?