.3 Second Positional Update Delay (Requesting Dev Response)

[TheRac25]

Modern games with good network code actually use timestamps and even employ some predictional methods to figure out if it was actually possible for you to get out of an AOE.

the problem with your "friends" analysis is you get predicted into an aoe that you werent really in, so it turns into the same problem
client sending timestamps to the server is a recipe for race conditions, there are allready enough
there are some decent thoughts though, server can timestamp telegraphs so the client can display them accurately and client can slam the server with pos update upon exiting/entering area of effect

this is all fine if the servers didnt have race conditions and processing lag (~500ms), why do you think there is no /ping command?

[Sunarie]

It seems like this could certainly be a symptom of the 300ms delay, but it could also be due to SE's servers being so bogged down, they aren't processing the data in time. If that's the case, upping the update frequency would hurt them even more.

I don't think anyone knows for sure what's causing it. I targeted the positional update because, in order to bandage the issue going from beta to release, that's what they lowered. They took it from .5 to .3 and a lot of people saw improvement. Whether it's the positional delay, their servers being bogged down, or the way in which the client communicates with the server though.. one thing remains, and that's that it hasn't been a problem in any other MMO. Not during release, not during regular play, not at all. So there has to be something others are doing that SE isn't. Can SE fix it? I don't know.. but I would like to know whether or not they're even gonna try.

[Astarica]

Wouldn't that just let people make programs that tell the server a player avoided an AoE no matter where they are? There has to be some server-side validation.

It seems like this could certainly be a symptom of the 300ms delay, but it could also be due to SE's servers being so bogged down, they aren't processing the data in time. If that's the case, upping the update frequency would hurt them even more.

You can't assume people can arbitarily hack your client, otherwise there's no hope. Sure, the client is easier to hack than the server, but if you assume everyone can just godmode their client, your game is pretty much screwed. I mean, other MMORPGs don't have people walking around being invulnerable to everything. To do something like take control your client would actually be pretty hard and likely leave a rather easy to detect trial so you just got to have faith that you can catch that kind of stuff.

[Sintram]

This is indeed the one mmo that has huge delay for me, and I played a lot of them.

I cannot even interrupt spells unless I move as soon as i start to cast it, if it is halfway cast, it will complete. It is such a joke, as my ping to my server is:

Reply from 199.91.189.20: bytes=32 time=87ms TTL=236
Reply from 199.91.189.20: bytes=32 time=75ms TTL=236
Reply from 199.91.189.20: bytes=32 time=74ms TTL=236
Reply from 199.91.189.20: bytes=32 time=80ms TTL=236

It is actually decent, and I could abort spells instantly in other mmo with double or triple that ping.

I only played up to level 47 dungeons so far, and as bard I can get out of aoes when I move instantly, but I am not going to raid even though I maxed all combat classes.

This is because I can see how hard it is to get our of red already for other players, and I know it is not their fault, since even I have to be always on my very toes.

There is really no excuse to make a game this year with such horrible player movement tracking.

On top of that game is not even secure and bots are using all sorts of client hacks.

Why not offload position to the client more? It is not like bots will teleport better when client is more trusted. They already do whatever they want.

[Astarica]

Let's say we've this scenario:

0.7s - Client sends data (still in fire)
0.71s - You move out of fire
0.99s - AE goes off on server
1.00s - Client sends data

Now, at 0.99s, what data does the server have? All it can see if you're in fire so you take the damage. The data that come 0.01s later is too late, and this is why you get hit by AE despite seemingly dodging it. Timestamp wouldn't matter, because the server already made its decision prior to the next client update. Now, you can have server wait up to an extra 0.3s to consult the client info, but that'd mean even more lag, and this game is laggy enough as is.

[Risae]

Funfact: Every not tripple-A-i-have-an-infinite-amount-of-money-to-rebuild-a-game-from-scratch F2P game is able to deliver a fluint gameplay experience. Guess what? These people didn't deliver this. TWICE.

[Astarica]

Funfact: Every not tripple-A-i-have-an-infinite-amount-of-money-to-rebuild-a-game-from-scratch F2P game is able to deliver a fluint gameplay experience. Guess what? These people didn't deliver this. TWICE.

I imagine the design of this game is due to fear of hacking. It's always easier to hack your client than the server. However, hacking hasn't rendered every other MMORPG where client does most of the heavy lifting unplayable, so one should not be this paranoid. From what I understand, while hacking your client isn't terribly difficult, it's virtually impossible to not leave a trail behind. You can buy a book that tells you how to hack WoW but you'll almost certainly get banned in a matter of minutes because of WoW Warden. Even less intrusive game needs at most hours before they noticed you're doing something really weird with your client if you're doing anything beyond just teleporting.

[Shinjee]

This is a great post, it gets tiring watching people say silly things in chat to myself and/or others.. when we're having issues with this. We're not bad players, on our end.. we've clearly gotten out of the way in time, based on the cast bar and/or ground effect.. yet, we still get hit. It's absolutely a problem, and it's getting kind of old, among other things. I really wish they'd take this seriously and make some real fixes :/

[Soukyuu]

the problem with your "friends" analysis is you get predicted into an aoe that you werent really in, so it turns into the same problem
client sending timestamps to the server is a recipe for race conditions, there are allready enough
there are some decent thoughts though, server can timestamp telegraphs so the client can display them accurately and client can slam the server with pos update upon exiting/entering area of effect

this is all fine if the servers didnt have race conditions and processing lag (~500ms), why do you think there is no /ping command?

I'm not really savvy with network programming, but didn't Yoshida's team had a session with Blizzard at some time? From what I understand, WoW doesn't have that type of problem, so if they are able to get advice from there, why not do it? I mean, it's pretty much clear SE is kinda a novice to PC programming. They had alt-tab crashing in 1.0, with a stock error message you could search for and end up on the MSDN page explaining exactly which code you have to add to prevent it. Took them the jump to 2.0 to fix it.

Netcode seems to be a similar issue. It's just much more complex than making a single player game running on user's machine.

This is a great post, it gets tiring watching people say silly things in chat to myself and/or others.. when we're having issues with this. We're not bad players, on our end.. we've clearly gotten out of the way in time, based on the cast bar and/or ground effect.. yet, we still get hit. It's absolutely a problem, and it's getting kind of old, among other things. I really wish they'd take this seriously and make some real fixes :/

I feel your pain. There is really no way to prove you got out of it on your screen, and there ARE people who use it as an excuse, so you just get lumped together with those.

[Undrentide]

SE are studiously ignoring this issue hoping it will go away. Titan has to be the most frustrating fight in the game. Firstly you have to have ADHD like tendencies to remember the rotation, then compound that with the positional lag nightmare that ensures unless youve moved BEFORE plumes/landslide animation has begun your guaranteed to get hit and its a recipe for disaster.
This positional lag occurs everywhere but its so much more noticeable on Titan. I know im not in the minority here, a large percentage of EU and Oceanic players are experiencing this.
I wish SE would at least acknowlege the issue or come up with a workaround. At the minute some players are complaining Titan is too easy because they DONT have the positional lag meaning they dodge, and dont get hit,which is exactly as it should be. Fix the lag, then adjust the difficulty if needs be.