Can we add some complexity to combat? Skill chains and magic bursts ??

[Ri_ri]

Honestly? Just trying to get a few intelligent responses on the topic to see what people think. The majority of responses are over simplifications.

By intelligent responses, you mean people agreeing with you?

Anyway, just because there's no system with a fancy name doesn't means you just don't have to care about what others are using.

[Dhex]

Honestly? Just trying to get a few intelligent responses on the topic to see what people think. The majority of responses are over simplifications.

Okay well...


It doesn't work with the structure of combat. A majority of actions on your hotbar are stuck with a dedicated GCD from 2.5s~2.3s with variance between classes. Not all classes function the same. Tanks both have a three step enmity chain they need to maintain to keep enmity building at a dedicated rate to out pace the generation of DPS/Healers. Skill Chains - for this system to be inherently interesting, and not subject to the self-skill chaining abuse as in Square's previous MMO title (FFXI), a Skill Chain would need to require an attack by each role to activate. Imbalance in mechanics of Skill Chains would drive the community towards a predisposition to any class able to self-chain.

Skill Chains themselves would require that a player react within a split second to a visual cue graphically; either (animation) or (text log). The pace of combat would make this impractical in the extreme - combat simply moves to quickly. People would need to artificially delay their actions so other players could interpret and react to them accurately - which just doesn't work. In the time it takes to enter a message into the log to forewarn your party that you're beginning a chain the situation in the fight could change drastically - area of effect, incoming damage spike, or simply a positional change would render your message moot. Not everyone has access to a VoIP - not everyone you play with is in your FC/LS.

• Paladin: Fast Blade -> Savage Blade -> Rage of Halone if I interrupt this chain to complete a "Skill Chain" which another player it interrupts the core rotation of the class. Enmity does not decay - how is Skill Chain damage calculated and who is the enmity attributed to? If I delayed my basic rotation the DPS also had to interrupt their rotations to perform an opener. In fights requiring dedicated Stuns they become unable to Skill Chain effectively.

• Warrior: See Paladin. Then tack on needing a 2nd distinct bi/tri rotation to their basic cycle to maintain Maim/Storm's Eye buff/debuff while building, maintaining, and utilizing Wrath stack requirements. Warrior would be less viable and more difficult to group with because of their ineffective rotations paired with a system that demands they delay or even cancel a combination to complete a chain - this once again directly goes against party play and structure in A Realm Reborn.

• Monk: Relies on maintaining a rotation and utilizing this rotation to maintain stacking buffs to output damage - abilities only become available when moving through forms and are gated by prerequisites unless their Perfect Balance ability is used - which is primarily for quickly recovering their stacked buff. It is not unfeasible that a class such as Monk could initiate or complete a Skill Chain under perfect circumstances - but it is highly unlikely and the class would suffer and likely become shunned as less effective.

• Bard: Could easily Skill Chain - the way Bard functions it would be the best choice, if not the exclusive choice, for a system that involved a group chaining skills together.

• White Mage: Did White Mage ever truly get to participate with any regularity in Skill Chains before? Please give me a structure where all roles are somehow incorporated.

• Scholar: See White Mage.

• Black Mage: Relies on building stacks of Fire, and recovering with stacks of Ice. Black Mage using Magic Burst to deal extra aspect damage without participating actively in the chain build means they are granted a DPS boost simply by existing in the party and continuing to do their basic rotations.

• Summoner: Has no method of outputting spike damage making their Burst utility practically null. Involving a pet in a Skill Chain would be horrendous due the imprecise nature of pet control in FFXIV ARR.

• Dragoon: Simplistic - Dragoon is the most traditional class and would be second only to Bard in such a system with it's freedom to position and utilize any particular skill on demand while only slightly disrupting their general GCD rotation.

In short - the pace of combat and the nature of Job mechanics would come into direct conflict with the idea of Skill Chains. Magic Burst would overwhelmingly favor Black Mage and lead to certain classes being stacked for an exponential effect. A system that requires players to interact in this manner would work in a game of significantly lower pace (FFXI) but is not possible in a modern MMO where the entire focus is on the individual's performance, positional awareness, and cool-down management to fulfill their role.

[Hobo]

It seems like everyday someone makes a new thread with I want "XYZ" to be more like FFXI. If you want FFXI go play FFXI.

[busta]

It seems like everyday someone makes a new thread with I want "XYZ" to be more like FFXI. If you want FFXI go play FFXI.

OK. I'll go play 2007 era FFXI when way before it was ruined by casuals and cry babies. Oh, wait. That FFXI doesn't exist anymore.

[Renvalt]

OK. I'll go play 2007 era FFXI when way before it was ruined by casuals and cry babies. Oh, wait. That FFXI doesn't exist anymore.

This comment right here makes me feel like you deem "casuals" as an inferior class of person, and that you would rather they stay out of video games.

Comments like above only serve to reinforce the stereotype that gamers have zero compassion or sensitivity, and that their soul is filled with naught but spite for humanity.

At least, that's how it seems to me.

[busta]

This comment right here makes me feel like you deem "casuals" as an inferior class of person, and that you would rather they stay out of video games.

Comments like above only serve to reinforce the stereotype that gamers have zero compassion or sensitivity, and that their soul is filled with naught but spite for humanity.

At least, that's how it seems to me.

I was actually a casual FFXI player. But I wasn't a cry baby. I enjoyed the fact that everything was so difficult and required a great deal of skill and effort. I didn't whine on forums and talk crap everywhere else when I couldn't get my job to max level in a month or when I couldn't get certain quests done because I didn't have the time to dedicate. FFXI was one of the ONLY games that didn't exclusively cater to casuals.

Nothing is wrong with casuals. But there is something wrong with building every single MMO out there from the ground up specifically for casuals. Casual players aren't the only players. Some people prefer a game where it feels like an alternate world rather than a single player Diablo-style RPG that can be played solo or with friends. Some people enjoy the idea of being high level being an amazing accomplishment rather than something everyone has. Some people enjoy feeling like they have jumped into a second life. The only non-casual focused MMO still out there is Eve Online.

[meldir]

But I wasn't a cry baby. I enjoyed the fact that everything was so difficult and required a great deal of skill and effort. I didn't whine on forums and talk crap everywhere else when I couldn't get my job to max level in a month or when I couldn't get certain quests done because I didn't have the time to dedicate. FFXI was one of the ONLY games that didn't exclusively cater to casuals.

Some people enjoy the idea of being high level being an amazing accomplishment rather than something everyone has. Some people enjoy feeling like they have jumped into a second life. The only non-casual focused MMO still out there is Eve Online.

and the eve community is know because it such a nice community.

tbh when i read you post i feel you have no compassion for anyone bar yourself and i feel the contempt you have for casual's. It scares me

[Keramory]

I loved skill chains and MB regardless if it was helpful or not.

however it wont work in this game because everyone has to spam their weapon skills off like its auto attack. No one is going to agree its worth coordinating with other peoples weapon skills. Although I'm w.e on having skill chains back, I would wish there was some purpose of TP and Auto Attack. The stuff's unlimited man.

[Alkimi]

They would have to redo the whole combat system. All DPS jobs rely on using rotations to keep their damage at a maximum, the system isn't built for this kind of thing.

There's plenty of timed coordination later on when you do harder dungeons but it's more about movement, positioning, and having a strategy rather than any timing of skills.

[Combinatoric]

There's plenty of timed coordination later on when you do harder dungeons but it's more about movement, positioning, and having a strategy rather than any timing of skills.

I'm not there yet, so I guess I'm glad to hear this.

Nonetheless, I still hope they introduce some skill coordination one day, of some type. . .