BARD NERF [requesting more details to the devs]

[Shayuki]

Eh.

For DPS, the rules are generally: Melee always deals more DPS than ranged(more difficult uptime). Channeling always deals more dmg than non-channeling(damage should be lower if you can move than if you need to stay still and channel). This means that Bard should by design deal the least amount of damage. Yes, the very least. They already are partially a support, with many groups requiring Bard simply because of their ability to support. If Bard is NOT the lowest DPS class in the game, they are too powerful for their design.

Just compare Bard to Summoner and BLM. They have no useful utility like interrupts, or party-wide buffs. All they bring is damage. Because they have no other utility, their damage MUST be significantly higher than Bard's. Otherwise there's just no reason to bring one of them. Bard is designed to have the lowest DPS in this game by a significant margin.

[Zleepyy]

BLM's I do agree with you on that part, they do not bring much utility other than their dmg alone. But saying SMN isn't bringing utility? Think your statement is a bit off there unfortunately. Indeed bard's have their 3 songs and batte voice along with a silence. SMN has Resseruction, eye for an eye, and the different combination between 3 Egis could be used in certain situations. They even bring a heal that I ofcourse know is not actively used, but they have it if the situation would require. Along with this you get the "Swiftcast" which basically makes you instaress, change to a titan egi if anything happens to go totally wrong and you need a quick support. Just want to point out that SMN does indeed have a lot of utility that's useful ( just thought about the skill "Virus" too as i typed hehe).

[Kolaina]

Or you might just not freak about it and wait. They might not even touch Bard and just buff everyone else. Calm down.

they did this in Aion and it worked horribly. Assassin was the most technical class, Those that got good at it, got real good at it. Managing stun locks in pvp, micro managing buffs, etc. The only class with out an "I win" button. People complained the class was over powered, so they saw nerf after nerf. People still complained. The solution.... allow all classes that can weild 2 handed weapons (every class but assassin btw) to be able to combine 2 weapons receiving the added attributes of the secondary weapon, and half its damage. Sins quickly became a joke in pvp. Also added a get out of stun free + immunity to stun for 10 seconds (not sure about the time, been a while since i played).

[Claire_Pendragon]

(didnt read whole thread)
Depending on which translation you read, it sounded like Yoshida wanted BRD to be good in dmg initially, and slowly get weaker if the fight goes on too long.

Which imo sounds like he plans to increase TP/MP cost of abilities.

So you start off fine, but as time goes on, you start to run out.

[storm]

I'm a little concerned about the nerf but.

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[Leraje]

Which imo sounds like he plans to increase TP/MP cost of abilities.

Increased TP/MP cost ... hmm no don't really think that would happen. Rather some less potency with any single target skill. For example "Heavy Shot" does around 130 potency instead of 150 potency.
A cast-animation for the Bard ?! ... Bards don't have any cast-animation, oh wait there are the actual songs, which the Bard cast for 3 seconds.
I don't know what is wrong with people ... Yoshi P. said they get a slight nerf so everyone is afraid of some major changes. He even said that the Melee Dps aka Dragoon and Monk gets buffed ( longer duration of the Greased Lightning stacks and shorter animation of the Jumps just for example )
The changes will not be so bad to destroy a class to such point that he deals no damage ...

[Woodberry]

Bard is designed to have the lowest DPS in this game by a significant margin.

That is poor design if it is true, which I don't believe it is. You want dps classes doing similar damage. Adjust boss fights to make certain classes shine. For instance bards are good against titan. They however fall behind in every fight in coil.

BLM is the easiest class to play currently, mainly because fights aren't designed to take advantage of their extremely strong aoe sleep.

As far as interrupts go, bards do have it easy. They simply need to give mnks a short ranged off GCD silence similar to bards.

[Claire_Pendragon]

Increased TP/MP cost ... hmm no don't really think that would happen. Rather some less potency with any single target skill. For example "Heavy Shot" does around 130 potency instead of 150 potency.
A cast-animation for the Bard ?! ... Bards don't have any cast-animation, oh wait there are the actual songs, which the Bard cast for 3 seconds.
I don't know what is wrong with people ... Yoshi P. said they get a slight nerf so everyone is afraid of some major changes. He even said that the Melee Dps aka Dragoon and Monk gets buffed ( longer duration of the Greased Lightning stacks and shorter animation of the Jumps just for example )
The changes will not be so bad to destroy a class to such point that he deals no damage ...

The suggestion u made doesnt line up with what Yoshida said he intended BRD to be.

He wants BRD to do good dmg, but only at the start of fights, and becomes weaker as the fight goes on.

Which he says they currently still are, but most boss fights dont drag out long enough, for the the BRDs dps to drop noticeably enough.

So if he's not going to increase the length of fights, what else could he do, to keep their initial burst dmg high, but make them weaker as time goes on?

imo, a slight increase to TP/MP costs are the only thing I can think of, to make any of his comments make sense.

That is poor design if it is true, which I don't believe it is. You want dps classes doing similar damage. Adjust boss fights to make certain classes shine. For instance bards are good against titan. They however fall behind in every fight in coil.

BLM is the easiest class to play currently, mainly because fights aren't designed to take advantage of their extremely strong aoe sleep.

As far as interrupts go, bards do have it easy. They simply need to give mnks a short ranged off GCD silence similar to bards.

Technically, thats not how support/hybrid DPS work.

Let me give a hypothetical example.

lets say every DPS does 100 dps.

and the support does 60 dps.

as long as the support adds 10 dps to every other DPS, they would technically be bringing "40 dps" additionally to their 60 dps, in short, a 100 dps.

so "yes" they need to be good, but not in their own dmg.

BRD doesnt raise dmg of the group, but raises sustainability.

Which makes things a bit awkward for them as a support/dps hybrid.

[Zellata]

they did this in Aion and it worked horribly. Assassin was the most technical class, Those that got good at it, got real good at it. Managing stun locks in pvp, micro managing buffs, etc. The only class with out an "I win" button. People complained the class was over powered, so they saw nerf after nerf. People still complained. The solution.... allow all classes that can weild 2 handed weapons (every class but assassin btw) to be able to combine 2 weapons receiving the added attributes of the secondary weapon, and half its damage. Sins quickly became a joke in pvp. Also added a get out of stun free + immunity to stun for 10 seconds (not sure about the time, been a while since i played).

It didn't quite go like that. Sin had an "I win" button in a form of packing silencing (or paralyzing) godstones in both weapons. Initially they could literally mash their face on the keyboard and still win a 1v1 pvp fight. After ncsoft added that stun immunity sins indeed became a joke as they lost ability to stun-lock didn't have anything else to bring to the party.

A cast-animation for the Bard ?! ... Bards don't have any cast-animation, oh wait there are the actual songs, which the Bard cast for 3 seconds.

Animation time and cast time are two completely different things.

[Terk177]

It's pronounced "With," not Whit.