[dev1080] Ifrit battle

[Rydin]

Bufff up. They'll immediately take off more HP than most setups even live long enough to take off with multishot and spamming weaponskills from that tp, or chainspellign shadowsear. They'll wail on it for another 5 minutes if they can. If they can't the glad will run it around the room while they DoT and ranged attack it, then they just multishot/chainspell again when it goes into berserk mode at 20% and effectively just disable the berserk mode that kills everyone else.

Unless you're thrown into an instanced battle where Ifrit starts attacking, so you can't "Buff up and pull" or "Buff up and run in"
Raging Strike and Ferocity gets an archer killed... He's out of the instance... Thaum trying to get close enough to cast emulate.. BAM.. one shotted by a physical attack... Out of the instance...

Do we know that will be the way... no... but we don't know that it wont be like it either....
No matter how balanced or unbalanced a game is, I could build a boss that your "perfect Party" couldn't beat
An NM that counters ranged attacks
An NM with very low elemental resistance but SUPER HIGH mind and Mag.def.
A Boss resistant to DoTs
An NM that is healed by DoTs
A MOB that sustains very little damage until you incap a certain part... So starting off with multishot does nothing
A MOB with an ability called "Short Term Memory Loss" that resets everyone's hate to 0
I really could do this all day

[Peregrine]

Unless you're thrown into an instanced battle where Ifrit starts attacking, so you can't "Buff up and pull" or "Buff up and run in"
Raging Strike and Ferocity gets an archer killed... He's out of the instance... Thaum trying to get close enough to cast emulate.. BAM.. one shotted by a physical attack... Out of the instance...

Do we know that will be the way... no... but we don't know that it wont be like it either....
No matter how balanced or unbalanced a game is, I could build a boss that your "perfect Party" couldn't beat
An NM that counters ranged attacks
An NM with very low elemental resistance but SUPER HIGH mind and Mag.def.
A Boss resistant to DoTs
An NM that is healed by DoTs
A MOB that sustains very little damage until you incap a certain part... So starting off with multishot does nothing
A MOB with an ability called "Short Term Memory Loss" that resets everyone's hate to 0
I really could do this all day

You don't design fights that exclude players. You simply don't allow mechanics that perpetually favor the same ones over and over. If you're honestly trying to argue that archers aren't going to have time to stack multishot at the start of fights...lol good luck with that. Desperate straws. Don't even know why you put yourself in that situation of arguing a hopeless position.

Maybe subconsciously as a lancer you think it's not going to happen to your job because you think it's great.

Well, we all think multishot and chainspell shadowsear is better than any of your abilities combined. That's just unfortunate reality.

That you would even say that a thaumaturge would be one-shotted if it tries to get near a NM proves you underestimate the jobs that will end up rendering you useless if allowed to. A thaumaturge can solo the great buffalo and survive its attacks indefinitely, alone. Can you?

Of course you can't.

[Rydin]

You don't design fights that exclude players. You simply don't allow mechanics that perpetually favor the same ones over and over. If you're honestly trying to argue that archers aren't going to have time to stack multishot at the start of fights...lol good luck with that. Desperate straws. Don't even know why you put yourself in that situation of arguing a hopeless position.

Maybe subconsciously as a lancer you think it's not going to happen to your job because you think it's great.

Well, we all think multishot and chainspell shadowsear is better than any of your abilities combined. That's just unfortunate reality.

That you would even say that a thaumaturge would be one-shotted if it tries to get near a NM proves you underestimate the jobs that will end up rendering you useless if allowed to. A thaumaturge can solo the great buffalo and survive its attacks indefinitely, alone. Can you?

Of course you can't.

I happen to be a thaum... and a Glad... And a lancer, and a pugilist... and a maruader, and in about a month, a capped archer and conj....
NMs are always made to not exclude certain classes, but to let certain classes shine...
A good way to do this would be to make NMs that needed incaps to stop their devastating party wiping moves or even to do damage at all. Since not every class has every incap, that would provide some much needed balance...
Also, I'd say all the classes will see some much needed change in the near future anyway

[Teknoman]

They are completely changing all the combat skill efficiency, possibly how the skills function, equipment stats, as well as adding jobs...and i'm sure the ifrit battle will end up taking advantage of that...so the assumptions about archers and thaumaturge ruling are shaky at best.

I really doubt you'll see anyone trying to take on the Ifrit battle with the normal classes, unless they already have them to 50 and just want to test the waters (fires?) with the battle.

Not to mention the boss will probably have elemental weaknesses, so you'd want anything that could cast water/ice spells in the first place. Also just because there is an "easy" or a "widely used" way to do something, doesnt mean everyone will adhere to that.

Lots of people told me as a Blue Mage I wouldn't be able to participate in alot of fights. Guess what, we found a way (Thief included).

[Peregrine]

They are completely changing all the combat skill efficiency, possibly how the skills function, equipment stats, as well as adding jobs...and i'm sure the ifrit battle will end up taking advantage of that...so the assumptions about archers and thaumaturge ruling are shaky at best.

Lots of people told me as a Blue Mage I wouldn't be able to participate in alot of fights. Guess what, we found a way (Thief included).

I killed Ouryu with a sneak attack trick attack Viper bite distortion. Doesn't mean any other thief on the server did. 80% of thieves switched to black mage, summoner, ranger, or tank because it was either that or don't go. Very few players have the resources to fight through imbalance. The vast majority simply take it and comply.

For some reason you all think SE can miraculously design these hard fights to have something new that can't be archer'd and thaumaturge'd, in light of a game that clearly is not the flagship MMO of creativity and innovation. You'll see just how inescapable the conclusion is.

The harder they make this fight, all it will do is enforce class castes. Until they fix thaumaturge and archer, adding Ifrit is a mistake. If it's too easy a fight, it's wasted. If it's too hard, archers and thaumaturges will finally have the excuse they've been looking for to take their seat at the endgame throne.

You can't develop a solution to game difficulty until you fix the problem of what players will do when faced with a difficult situation in this game.

[Mack]

I think and I hope it'll be part of a dungeon, the first thing I thought of was FFVIII dungeon leading to Ifrit at the end (although that dungeon is way too short) or temples like FFXII's Ranperre's Tomb leading to Belias. Would be so awesome if they do it in the same vein as those.

[Oscillate_Wildly]

The last group fight from the storyline was....extremely disappointing. Three of us took down the zombies while chatting about useless things, even when they glitched. I know that the crafters have to have a roll somewhere in all this, but by making the battles so useless and forgettable, just sad.
When parley is more difficult you know you have an issue.

[Elkwood]

This is a chance to add in a story related challenge to the players, and I for one hope that it happens.

I'm talking about walking into it and being obliterated due to not knowing strategies to defeat him. Having to take a step back and go, hmm ok guys maybe we should try this... To feel a sense of accomplishment, there needs to be difficulty, and have us hanging on by the skin of our teeth. Nearly one shot the tank with magic DMG if you must in order to accomplish this, creating a sense of urgency, perhaps forcing us to use those elemental attributes that we have been given.

Most of have witnessed Ifrit already, now show us what he is capable of so that he lives up to the lore that has been given to us.

Feel free to discuss further battle ideas, as I am sure others have their own.

Hells ya add in some environmental challenges with ifrit and I am all for it.

[zaviermhigo]

I wonder...if Ifrit has an hp regen just like in XI, i know i used XI but its all i have to a Ifrit fight right? Then we would have to dot him, but I was always for more than THM having dots. THM should be an enfeebler, but I thought archer should have tons of enfeebling arrows and what not like archer, and maybe even give dds moves that inflict enfeebles on the mobs. If they made Ifrit with a regen you would need someone with enfeebles and that would kind of favor thm, which even though I am a thm you should be able to get by without one. I mean i'm a mage i always want every party to have one, but not everyone has a friend who is one.

[Paragons]

Im completely confused by this part; Isn't there an alpha video release of the entire scene etc...so its already been designed. And it looked damn good too.