An apology

[Dav]

I don't really understand the hate for Titan runs being sold...

This game is all about cooperation. Most FC's are about cooperation and helping each other to finish the hard fights together. It leads to moments of triumph that are wonderful. Those who emerge from the crucible may have lifelong friendships, memories they will treasure, and in one case I know an engagement.

FFXIV is designed with this in mind.

By selling or purchasing Titan runs you cheat all of your customers of these experiences. For a chance to pass the fight quickly you deprive all of your customers of the experiences that come with actually playing the game properly.

I don't hate you all. I hate what you are doing. I understand the gil temptation. But in a few months when you own that large mansion....I think the better party will be at the smaller house down the hill. In that house the people have beaten Titan together after long hours of struggle. The party will be better there. Much better.
This is why Titan runs are hated.

By selling Titan runs you advertise a cheap win in exchange for not just gil, but for all the wonderful things actually playing the game properly can give you.

You are not a gill seller, but gil sellers also deprive people of the triumphs of a well earned FFXIV experience. That is why people often compare Titan sellers to gil sellers. Selling gil or Titan runs undermines the game and our gaming communities.

You may at this point argue that it is the customer's choice, but many many bad people make this argument to justify things.

Again I do not hate you all, but from my perspective you are hurting the entire Balmung community.

This is why our FC has banned this practice, and most players hate it.

[NeruMew]

-snip-
Selling gil or Titan runs undermines the game and our gaming communities.
-snip snip-

This! I agree with you =P

If you wanna help people then give them away for free atleast, make friends and help them out as you can. Don't just mask a possible greed for gil with helping the community. It looks like you just wanna help yourself out.

It's just... wrong. I don't care if you carry/help them and teach them. Just do it because you care, not because you want to squeeze some more gil in.

Anyway...

[Aleisterz]

This! I agree with you =P

If you wanna help people then give them away for free atleast, make friends and help them out as you can. Don't just mask a possible greed for gil with helping the community. It looks like you just wanna help yourself out.

It's just... wrong. I don't care if you carry/help them and teach them. Just do it because you care, not because you want to squeeze some more gil in.

Anyway...

Couldn't have said it better Dav. Completely agree and Liadan doesn't do this in FFXIV.. xD

And Maenne, completely disagree with you on half of that.

[Maenne]

most players hate it.

Actually, most people don't care. Cause what another player does with their own money on their own time is their own business and as long as it's not breaking the ToS, it's their own business

We'll never see eye to eye, and I'm okay with that. Different strokes for different folks. But as soon as you say what I do is morally wrong, and take the high ground, that's when I get offended and this long-ish thread happens. As someone earlier in the thread stated, we are basically putting up our services like a crafter would. Do you ask that each crafter not sell their wares on the marketboard, so that everyone can go through the crafting experience on their own so that they can experience it and enjoy it? That's pretty much what you're saying to us that run Titan.
You're asking people who, have done the fight, have learned it on their own and made their own experience of it, and are willing to help people out (for a little coin, cause like before, even crafters are paid for their time given and what it takes to make the thing themself).
There's nothing wrong with it, and I hope at the very least, while you don't believe in doing it, you will consider that it's not "wrong" and not "killing the community" as you fear. Truth be told, if someone has cleared it with us, seen how our strats go, they could even go to their friends and show them how we did it and maybe a few more people will get Titan down on their own and not have to buy it.

[DmitriMosolov]

LOL What did I just read. Free Gil for my Skill? It's like throwing the hard working grind hours of learning how to kill Titan and not put it to good use. And also to rid of the frustration one might be facing when trying to kill Titan with pugs that are close to being brain dead.

[WhitemageSerenia]

I appreciate you doing this apology, I know how much it can suck for one person to spoil the entire group. It sucks when you bolster your reputation, only to have one person tank it. It then becomes hard to reclaim it; If people choose to charge gil to do a merc run, whatever that's fine, its your choice. But know this. YOU ARE HURTING THE COMMUNITY. You're carrying someone through the hard fight; You can make these excuses that you're alleviating their frustration all you want, but realistically, you're hurting them because you're denying them the opportunity to learn the fight, to learn the mechanics.

btw I don't blame the ones actually PAYING, I do however blame the ones SELLING, because well... and this may sound farfetched but it would be no different than someone paying someone else to go to school or work for them, while this person sits back and reaps the benefits. Whats going to happen when they actually NEED to apply these skills that they should have learned doing things the hard way? Yeah... they're pretty much brick walled at that point.

As for the posts about how its easy to make enough money to afford the ridiculous prices these players are asking for, you do realize that you're basically asking them to spend as much time on a GAME as you'd expect them to put in to an ACTUAL JOB. That's not exactly fair.

Anyway, I actually agree that this thread should probably be locked, due to the fact that the original post has served its purpose, and I wish you the best in reclaiming your reputation. To those selling the runs, I do wish you the best as well, while I may not agree with your methods, I do however, agree with your right to do so. Please just know, that for every action, there is consequences.

[ValeriaShadowborn]

While I understand your point, the impact of selling or giving free runs on the community is not as big as your trying to make it out to be. Terrible people who don't bother to learn how to do the fights or how to play their class exist, and yes these people will probably never get a relic without buying a run or having someone carry them through, but plenty of other people who are very skilled and very competent are road blocked from getting their relics simply because they don't have an extensive social circle, or don't have alot of play time to devote to wiping over and over. Both of these people are part of the community and your going to end up with both of them in your groups, only instead of the terrible person being terrible with crappy gear, now they are at least terrible with a relic.

[LiadansWhisper]

As for the posts about how its easy to make enough money to afford the ridiculous prices these players are asking for, you do realize that you're basically asking them to spend as much time on a GAME as you'd expect them to put in to an ACTUAL JOB. That's not exactly fair.

I spend as much time raiding in WoW as many people spend at an actual job, so...I'm not sure I see your point. o_O

While I understand your point, the impact of selling or giving free runs on the community is not as big as your trying to make it out to be. Terrible people who don't bother to learn how to do the fights or how to play their class exist, and yes these people will probably never get a relic without buying a run or having someone carry them through, but plenty of other people who are very skilled and very competent are road blocked from getting their relics simply because they don't have an extensive social circle, or don't have alot of play time to devote to wiping over and over. Both of these people are part of the community and your going to end up with both of them in your groups, only instead of the terrible person being terrible with crappy gear, now they are at least terrible with a relic.

Terrible people with gear are significantly easier to carry than terrible people without gear. Plus, not all of them are terrible in any sense of the word. They just may not have static groups or a social network, as you said. ^_^

[Maenne]

YOU ARE HURTING THE COMMUNITY. You're carrying someone through the hard fight; You can make these excuses that you're alleviating their frustration all you want, but realistically, you're hurting them because you're denying them the opportunity to learn the fight, to learn the mechanics.

Most of the people that we carry through know the fight well enough that they don't die well through the entire fight, so for the most part they are just being brought down by the other people that don't know the fight. Plus, if we're carrying them through the entire fight then you LEARN the entire fight while you're being carried. Unless they choose to just jump off at the first moment of the fight, which I have yet to see, but I'm sure it happens occasionally.

[LiadansWhisper]

Most of the people that we carry through know the fight well enough that they don't die well through the entire fight, so for the most part they are just being brought down by the other people that don't know the fight. Plus, if we're carrying them through the entire fight then you LEARN the entire fight while you're being carried. Unless they choose to just jump off at the first moment of the fight, which I have yet to see, but I'm sure it happens occasionally.

I still don't understand how carrying other people "hurts the community." :-\ It's not like Serenia is raiding with these unique and special snowflakes. I mean, if someone doesn't have a network of capable friends to form a static group with, exactly how is that person supposed to get the fight done? Run it with pugs until they hate their lives enough to cancel their sub? I mean...seriously...