How would you design Red Mage in FFXIV?

[Duelle]

Anything remotely close to this would be just too much work in Yoshi's eyes I'd say.

And this wouldn't be far from the truth. The job had too much "work" in its role in-game, and it was part of why it had such a high burnout rate. Specially when all some of us wanted was to be the guy with a sword that could use magic.

Hybrids will never see challenging endgame. No-one will bring 50% dps and 50% heals. They'd just bring in a normal dps and kill the boss before the hybrids healing would be necessary. We keep seeing this happen, but sadly the deluded fools on this forum refused to pull their heads out of the dirt and look around at how people really play the game.

You're right up to a point. It is impossible to have a balanced melee/nuke/heals hybrid in an MMORPG. There's simply too much to take into account if you are truly trying to make it an even split between the three aspects. And you're right, such a hybrid will never see endgame, and if they do it'll be after getting pigeonholed into a role that chances are the people who rolled said hybrid did not want to do. For FFXI's RDM it was buffbotting; for WoW's paladins it was healing.

That said, it is possible to have a DPS with utility in the form of limited healing and some buffs that are easy to cast and easy to maintain. The combat model would still favor DPS over heals while making heals possible but extremely limited. Going to WoW's paladins, if you specced Retribution you spent your resources smashing faces, but if you felt the need to heal you could...at the cost of most if not your entire mana bar casting two or three heal spells that healed nowhere near what those spells would do coming from a real healer. It was fairly balanced, was still found wanting in competitive-level PvP (contrary to some predictions, hybrids did not rule the PvP universe when they were made combat-viable), nor was it topping DPS meters in raids. It was good enough for justify their DPS spots while still being considered hybrids.

That's the appoach I would like to see the devs take.

[Gormogon]

You're right up to a point. It is impossible to have a balanced melee/nuke/heals hybrid in an MMORPG. There's simply too much to take into account if you are truly trying to make it an even split between the three aspects. And you're right, such a hybrid will never see endgame, and if they do it'll be after getting pigeonholed into a role that chances are the people who rolled said hybrid did not want to do. For FFXI's RDM it was buffbotting; for WoW's paladins it was healing.

That said, it is possible to have a DPS with utility in the form of limited healing and some buffs that are easy to cast and easy to maintain. The combat model would still favor DPS over heals while making heals possible but extremely limited. Going to WoW's paladins, if you specced Retribution you spent your resources smashing faces, but if you felt the need to heal you could...at the cost of most if not your entire mana bar casting two or three heal spells that healed nowhere near what those spells would do coming from a real healer. It was fairly balanced, was still found wanting in competitive-level PvP (contrary to some predictions, hybrids did not rule the PvP universe when they were made combat-viable), nor was it topping DPS meters in raids. It was good enough for justify their DPS spots while still being considered hybrids.

That's the appoach I would like to see the devs take.

Take into consideration that SMN's can heal and BLM can cross class a heal as well. They aren't great enough heals for them to be considered healers obviously but it's enough to stall and if it's a blm/smn + paladin healing they can easily sustain the fight long enough as long as they manage their mana in dungeons, keyword dungeon. Not saying it should be done but it's a potential alternative to some content in that low percent and the healer is struggling.

As for a Red Mage even with double cast it shouldn't be much of a game changer in PvE since double cast will most likely be on a 30 second plus cooldown and in PvP will only be as annoying as dealing with a scholars fairy.

People that complicate a system, mechanic, design only have themselves to blame for believing that something isn't possible. Every FF archetype is possible in FFXIV so far the only restriction when it comes to creating classes and jobs is self-imposed restrictions not something as legit as a "time investment" to creating a class, gear, etc. The biggest offender is the whole job has to fit in with the FFXIV "lore".

[MartaDemireux]

I have an idea up here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...night-Proposal

I'll spoiler it below for ease of acces when I'm at PC. I've been rethinking some of it lately though with the knowledge that SE is wanting to not utilize branching jobs in the future. Either way I'm adamant that they shouldn't get enspells as that's Mystic Knight territory.

[Drasyra]

Two words...
Cleric Stance.

A thousand times this.

Red Mage could have a trait that changes Cleric Stance to swap STR and INT instead of MND and INT. Or, instead, they could have their own stance that swaps stats. There are so many ways to make this work, making a support class able to switch into DPS mode or a DPS class switch into support mode.

[Volcano]

RDM would be too "hard' for XIV. I mean XI RDM needed 6x pros/shells//hastes casted, several refreshes, para/silences/blind/slows debuffs (depending on mob/pt), Cures, and self buffs like Stoneskin and Blink and maybe some slight dmg with spells. Anything remotely close to this would be just too much work in Yoshi's eyes I'd say. I mean we don't even have to cast shell and pro anymore, it's just one spell now lol.

But it may not have to work like that, as it did in FFXI i mean, look at SCH, in FFXI it is a completely different job in XI then it is in XIV. So who knows how it could work here.

[Elven]

I would still make him a hybrid battle mage just have him heal and do damage at the same time, Something like different rotations cause a flow on effect with healing properties and buffs.

[Fendred]

They won't be putting red mage in anytime soon. It is a job meant to be highly adaptable to different combat situations, and the game is currently based on set roles. In short, they couldn't make a red mage that feels authentic in the current system without significantly gutting what made it interesting in the first place. If a role were to be assigned to red mage, it would be "support." They buff allies, can throw moderate cure spells, can use damage dealing spells to hurt groups, and do good single target damage with a rapier. If they went all the way with red mage, it could even tank by instead choosing defensive buffs and heals.

[Limecat]

I can't really see RDM functioning in this game the way things are so streamlined, where any differences in magic effects amount to only flavor text. Closest I could see happening are stronger versions of the on-hit debuffs we already have with much longer durations(start at 10 seconds, Fencer then gets three +10 second traits instead of +damage ones like other classes?), or a trait that lets their debuffs bypass the multiple-application resistance factor. Tack on a minor Haste, and maybe Refresh as a 2-minute cooldown and potency on par with Shroud of Saints?

[Duelle]

I've been rethinking some of it lately though with the knowledge that SE is wanting to not utilize branching jobs in the future.

Might want to wait to see what the end result of this is. My gut is telling me there's more to the whole rogue/NIN thing. My money is on Rogue and NIN growing separately past lv30m simulating the SMN/SCH dynamic but without having the extra class. I could be wrong but I could have sworn that Yoshida mentioned that Rogue and NIN would have their own versions of endgame gear.

If the challenge point is to not use enspells, I guess I'll also try to rework my suggestion. Considering RDM is the marriage of magic and melee, I'm not sure why we would want to deny a no-brainer option like enspells to them.

[Yurai]

I'd like to see them do something new, like making red mage a job crystal that can be used by any class, offering the option to add support abilities to the base skillset that this class already has. I feel it would suit the general theme of the job well, seeing as it'd accommodate pretty much any playstyle, much like the jack of all trades we know from earlier games. It would use the same weapon and armor of the current base class.