How would you design Red Mage in FFXIV?

[Duelle]

Anything remotely close to this would be just too much work in Yoshi's eyes I'd say.

And this wouldn't be far from the truth. The job had too much "work" in its role in-game, and it was part of why it had such a high burnout rate. Specially when all some of us wanted was to be the guy with a sword that could use magic.

Hybrids will never see challenging endgame. No-one will bring 50% dps and 50% heals. They'd just bring in a normal dps and kill the boss before the hybrids healing would be necessary. We keep seeing this happen, but sadly the deluded fools on this forum refused to pull their heads out of the dirt and look around at how people really play the game.

You're right up to a point. It is impossible to have a balanced melee/nuke/heals hybrid in an MMORPG. There's simply too much to take into account if you are truly trying to make it an even split between the three aspects. And you're right, such a hybrid will never see endgame, and if they do it'll be after getting pigeonholed into a role that chances are the people who rolled said hybrid did not want to do. For FFXI's RDM it was buffbotting; for WoW's paladins it was healing.

That said, it is possible to have a DPS with utility in the form of limited healing and some buffs that are easy to cast and easy to maintain. The combat model would still favor DPS over heals while making heals possible but extremely limited. Going to WoW's paladins, if you specced Retribution you spent your resources smashing faces, but if you felt the need to heal you could...at the cost of most if not your entire mana bar casting two or three heal spells that healed nowhere near what those spells would do coming from a real healer. It was fairly balanced, was still found wanting in competitive-level PvP (contrary to some predictions, hybrids did not rule the PvP universe when they were made combat-viable), nor was it topping DPS meters in raids. It was good enough for justify their DPS spots while still being considered hybrids.

That's the appoach I would like to see the devs take.

[Gormogon]

You're right up to a point. It is impossible to have a balanced melee/nuke/heals hybrid in an MMORPG. There's simply too much to take into account if you are truly trying to make it an even split between the three aspects. And you're right, such a hybrid will never see endgame, and if they do it'll be after getting pigeonholed into a role that chances are the people who rolled said hybrid did not want to do. For FFXI's RDM it was buffbotting; for WoW's paladins it was healing.

That said, it is possible to have a DPS with utility in the form of limited healing and some buffs that are easy to cast and easy to maintain. The combat model would still favor DPS over heals while making heals possible but extremely limited. Going to WoW's paladins, if you specced Retribution you spent your resources smashing faces, but if you felt the need to heal you could...at the cost of most if not your entire mana bar casting two or three heal spells that healed nowhere near what those spells would do coming from a real healer. It was fairly balanced, was still found wanting in competitive-level PvP (contrary to some predictions, hybrids did not rule the PvP universe when they were made combat-viable), nor was it topping DPS meters in raids. It was good enough for justify their DPS spots while still being considered hybrids.

That's the appoach I would like to see the devs take.

Take into consideration that SMN's can heal and BLM can cross class a heal as well. They aren't great enough heals for them to be considered healers obviously but it's enough to stall and if it's a blm/smn + paladin healing they can easily sustain the fight long enough as long as they manage their mana in dungeons, keyword dungeon. Not saying it should be done but it's a potential alternative to some content in that low percent and the healer is struggling.

As for a Red Mage even with double cast it shouldn't be much of a game changer in PvE since double cast will most likely be on a 30 second plus cooldown and in PvP will only be as annoying as dealing with a scholars fairy.

People that complicate a system, mechanic, design only have themselves to blame for believing that something isn't possible. Every FF archetype is possible in FFXIV so far the only restriction when it comes to creating classes and jobs is self-imposed restrictions not something as legit as a "time investment" to creating a class, gear, etc. The biggest offender is the whole job has to fit in with the FFXIV "lore".

[MartaDemireux]

I have an idea up here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...night-Proposal

I'll spoiler it below for ease of acces when I'm at PC. I've been rethinking some of it lately though with the knowledge that SE is wanting to not utilize branching jobs in the future. Either way I'm adamant that they shouldn't get enspells as that's Mystic Knight territory.

[Duelle]

I've been rethinking some of it lately though with the knowledge that SE is wanting to not utilize branching jobs in the future.

Might want to wait to see what the end result of this is. My gut is telling me there's more to the whole rogue/NIN thing. My money is on Rogue and NIN growing separately past lv30m simulating the SMN/SCH dynamic but without having the extra class. I could be wrong but I could have sworn that Yoshida mentioned that Rogue and NIN would have their own versions of endgame gear.

If the challenge point is to not use enspells, I guess I'll also try to rework my suggestion. Considering RDM is the marriage of magic and melee, I'm not sure why we would want to deny a no-brainer option like enspells to them.

[korbinn]

And this wouldn't be far from the truth. The job had too much "work" in its role in-game, and it was part of why it had such a high burnout rate. Specially when all some of us wanted was to be the guy with a sword that could use magic.
That's the appoach I would like to see the devs take.

So true, I only played rdm to be a magic swordsman, and instead I become a refresh whore, who wasnt even ALLOWED to wear a sword in parties, so I said to hell with that. I was a "terrible" rdm and did all my rotations, pulled, and to amuse myself, even meleed much to the chagrin of others who half the time would complain that "you're feeding it tp". It was the only way to play rdm without boring myself to death.