How would you design Red Mage in FFXIV?

[Redlynx]

I would love to see red mage in ffxiv, it was my favourite class in FFXI.
I think the best would be to introduce them as a DPS class with powerful buffs and debuffs same as in FFXI, with the exclusive ability to apply buff effects to weapons and party member weapons.

Please SE do it!

[korbinn]

RDM would be too "hard' for XIV. I mean XI RDM needed 6x pros/shells//hastes casted, several refreshes, para/silences/blind/slows debuffs (depending on mob/pt), Cures, and self buffs like Stoneskin and Blink and maybe some slight dmg with spells. Anything remotely close to this would be just too much work in Yoshi's eyes I'd say. I mean we don't even have to cast shell and pro anymore, it's just one spell now lol.

[Duelle]

Anything remotely close to this would be just too much work in Yoshi's eyes I'd say.

And this wouldn't be far from the truth. The job had too much "work" in its role in-game, and it was part of why it had such a high burnout rate. Specially when all some of us wanted was to be the guy with a sword that could use magic.

Hybrids will never see challenging endgame. No-one will bring 50% dps and 50% heals. They'd just bring in a normal dps and kill the boss before the hybrids healing would be necessary. We keep seeing this happen, but sadly the deluded fools on this forum refused to pull their heads out of the dirt and look around at how people really play the game.

You're right up to a point. It is impossible to have a balanced melee/nuke/heals hybrid in an MMORPG. There's simply too much to take into account if you are truly trying to make it an even split between the three aspects. And you're right, such a hybrid will never see endgame, and if they do it'll be after getting pigeonholed into a role that chances are the people who rolled said hybrid did not want to do. For FFXI's RDM it was buffbotting; for WoW's paladins it was healing.

That said, it is possible to have a DPS with utility in the form of limited healing and some buffs that are easy to cast and easy to maintain. The combat model would still favor DPS over heals while making heals possible but extremely limited. Going to WoW's paladins, if you specced Retribution you spent your resources smashing faces, but if you felt the need to heal you could...at the cost of most if not your entire mana bar casting two or three heal spells that healed nowhere near what those spells would do coming from a real healer. It was fairly balanced, was still found wanting in competitive-level PvP (contrary to some predictions, hybrids did not rule the PvP universe when they were made combat-viable), nor was it topping DPS meters in raids. It was good enough for justify their DPS spots while still being considered hybrids.

That's the appoach I would like to see the devs take.

[Gormogon]

You're right up to a point. It is impossible to have a balanced melee/nuke/heals hybrid in an MMORPG. There's simply too much to take into account if you are truly trying to make it an even split between the three aspects. And you're right, such a hybrid will never see endgame, and if they do it'll be after getting pigeonholed into a role that chances are the people who rolled said hybrid did not want to do. For FFXI's RDM it was buffbotting; for WoW's paladins it was healing.

That said, it is possible to have a DPS with utility in the form of limited healing and some buffs that are easy to cast and easy to maintain. The combat model would still favor DPS over heals while making heals possible but extremely limited. Going to WoW's paladins, if you specced Retribution you spent your resources smashing faces, but if you felt the need to heal you could...at the cost of most if not your entire mana bar casting two or three heal spells that healed nowhere near what those spells would do coming from a real healer. It was fairly balanced, was still found wanting in competitive-level PvP (contrary to some predictions, hybrids did not rule the PvP universe when they were made combat-viable), nor was it topping DPS meters in raids. It was good enough for justify their DPS spots while still being considered hybrids.

That's the appoach I would like to see the devs take.

Take into consideration that SMN's can heal and BLM can cross class a heal as well. They aren't great enough heals for them to be considered healers obviously but it's enough to stall and if it's a blm/smn + paladin healing they can easily sustain the fight long enough as long as they manage their mana in dungeons, keyword dungeon. Not saying it should be done but it's a potential alternative to some content in that low percent and the healer is struggling.

As for a Red Mage even with double cast it shouldn't be much of a game changer in PvE since double cast will most likely be on a 30 second plus cooldown and in PvP will only be as annoying as dealing with a scholars fairy.

People that complicate a system, mechanic, design only have themselves to blame for believing that something isn't possible. Every FF archetype is possible in FFXIV so far the only restriction when it comes to creating classes and jobs is self-imposed restrictions not something as legit as a "time investment" to creating a class, gear, etc. The biggest offender is the whole job has to fit in with the FFXIV "lore".

[MartaDemireux]

I have an idea up here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...night-Proposal

I'll spoiler it below for ease of acces when I'm at PC. I've been rethinking some of it lately though with the knowledge that SE is wanting to not utilize branching jobs in the future. Either way I'm adamant that they shouldn't get enspells as that's Mystic Knight territory.

[korbinn]

And this wouldn't be far from the truth. The job had too much "work" in its role in-game, and it was part of why it had such a high burnout rate. Specially when all some of us wanted was to be the guy with a sword that could use magic.
That's the appoach I would like to see the devs take.

So true, I only played rdm to be a magic swordsman, and instead I become a refresh whore, who wasnt even ALLOWED to wear a sword in parties, so I said to hell with that. I was a "terrible" rdm and did all my rotations, pulled, and to amuse myself, even meleed much to the chagrin of others who half the time would complain that "you're feeding it tp". It was the only way to play rdm without boring myself to death.

[Volcano]

RDM would be too "hard' for XIV. I mean XI RDM needed 6x pros/shells//hastes casted, several refreshes, para/silences/blind/slows debuffs (depending on mob/pt), Cures, and self buffs like Stoneskin and Blink and maybe some slight dmg with spells. Anything remotely close to this would be just too much work in Yoshi's eyes I'd say. I mean we don't even have to cast shell and pro anymore, it's just one spell now lol.

But it may not have to work like that, as it did in FFXI i mean, look at SCH, in FFXI it is a completely different job in XI then it is in XIV. So who knows how it could work here.

[nekochen]

Seeing that we have groups of 2 classes each - tie to one type of limit break, having a 9th archetype class would probably need a new LB.
Red mage has always been hybrid support/DPS, so perhaps their limit break drops a circle on the ground which heals and/or buff teammates while in it and damages and/or debuff monsters touching the circle?

[Synikal]

Fencer into Redmage is how I'd like to see it. Just an idea but they could give redmage some more additional action slots that are reserved for spells only then give them a trait or stance that makes it so an offensive spell cast by them is instead converted into a melee attack with greater damage or boosted effect if at the end of a fencer combo. They also could give them a spike spell where when they trigger it the next elemental spell they trigger instead becomes that type of spike. Another ability could be after triggering it the next elemental strike becomes an AoE.

As for Debuffs, I think maybe leave that for the Spellblade job that could also come off of Fencer like in FFTA2

[Duelle]

Taken from my sig:

Fencer

Considered outliers among their peers in the art of the sword, fencers utilize a fighting style developed around fluid movement and quick attacks. Where gladiators and marauders bring pure strength to the fray, these shifty combatants prefer to wear their targets down and win battles by attrition, waiting for the opportune time to close in for the coup de grace.

Originally a recreational combat style of the Ishgardian nobility, the fencing repertoire has expanded as more individuals took up the rapier and saber. Crippling techniques and blade enchantments eventually became common among practitioners, allowing the fencer to close the gap with their brute force-focused counterparts that finesse alone cannot fill.

Concept: Front row fighter that can cripple opponents with sword techniques. They are also adept at bypassing their enemies' defenses with enchanted sword techniques.

Weapons: Rapier, Fleuret, Saber

Fencer abilities
01 Quick Thrust - Delivers an attack with a potency of 120.
02 Principle of Defense - Increases your parry rate by 50% and your evasion by 5% for 20 seconds.
04 Stocatta - Delivers an attack with a potency of 100. Combo => Quick Thrust: 200 Potency
06 Glory Slash - Delivers an attack with a potency of 100 to all enemies in a cone before you.
08 Soul Thrust - Delivers an attack with a potency of 100. Decreases target's resistance to magic damage for 10 seconds.
10 Fleche - Lunges at a target and delivers an attack with a potency of 130. Must be more than 5 yalms from the target. 10 yalm range.
12 Undaunted - Increases frequency of auto-attacks and skill speed by 50% for 10 seconds. 3-minute cooldown.
15 Burning Blade - Deals fire damage with a potency of 50. Combo => Soul Thrust: 100 potency. Damage over time with a potency of 25 for 18 seconds.
18 Hamstring - Delivers an attack with a potency of X. Decreases target's movement speed by 20% for X seconds.
22 Frozen Stab - Deals ice damage with a potency of 50. Combo => Soul Thrust: Slows target by 20% for 20 seconds.
26 Keen Eye - Increases the critial hit chance of the next two attacks by 100/50%.
30 Sanguine Pin - Delivers a three-fold attack with a potency of X. Combo => Stocatta: Recover TP and MP over 24 seconds.
34 Lightning Thrust - Deals lightning damage with a potency of 50. Combo => Soul Thrust: Paralyzes target for 15 seconds
38 Froissement - Interrupt the enemy's spell or channeled attack.
42 Graze - Attempt to dodge the next two physical or magic attacks, reducing damage taken by 25% per attack.
46 Riposte - Delivers an attack with a potency of 120. Can only be used after parrying an attack.
50 Death Blossom - Delivers a four-fold attack with a potency of 200. Doubles the duration of Burn, Frost and Shock.

Traits
08 Enhanced Dexterity (Fencer) - Increases DEX by 2.
14 Mastery of Defense - Increases Principle of Defense's parry increase to 60% and evasion increase to 10%.
16 Enhanced Dexterity II (Fencer) - Increases DEX by 4.
20 Increased Attack Speed - Increases auto-attack speed and skill speed by 5%.
24 Enhanced Dexterity III (Fencer) - Increases DEX by 6.
28 Flunge - Extends the range of Fleche to 15 yalms.
32 Enhanced Hamstring - Hamstring now decreases enemy movement speed by 40%.
36 Dauntlessness - Increases Undaunted's duration to 20 seconds.
40 Keener Eye: Keen eye now increases the crit chance of the next three attacks by 100/75/50%.
44 Glorious Slash - Using Glory Slash while targetting an enemy affected by Burn, Frost or Shock will spread their associated status ailments to all targets affected by Glory Slash.
50 Enhanced Graze - Increases the number of attacks you can attempt to avoid to four.

Fencer notes:

- Fencer is built around a DPS with slightly more defences than what a LNC or MNK would have to compensate for their slightly lower damage. I purposely made their cooldowns very situational to drive the point home of them being focused on DPS.

- The quested skills would be Burning Blade and Sanguine Pin. Burning Blade is more of an introduction to the wider world of Fencing to give a hint of the jobs the class can go into at lv30 (I'd expect the conversation with the Fencer's Guild guildmaster to include the line "don't fool yourself into thinking a sword enchant is makes you less of a swordsman. We're not thaumaturges; we simply borrowed an aspect of their discipline and bent it to our own ends.")

- Sanguine Pin would enter the game at a point in time where FNC is starting to find themselves TP starved, which is why its combo effect involves regenerating TP and MP over time.

- Fleche is pretty much mandatory if FNC is going to branch off into a tank (Mystic Knight). Baseline FNC would be the only class (not job) that can close a distance with an enemy.

- Froissement works on a mechanic separate from what I call FFXIV's "fake interrupts". That is to say, abilities that are similar to interrupts but are basically one-second silences or stuns. If a FNC were to use Froissement on the caster mobs in AK, they would be able to interrupt their casts without triggering DRs. As I would want Froissement to be off the GCD, I think a 10-second cooldown and a TP+MP cost would be in order.

- Soul Thrust, BB/FS/LT and Death Blossom should have TP and MP costs.

- The way Graze works is that the game will have you run a dodge roll against the attack or spell in question. If you pass the dodge roll then Graze "stacks" are not consumed. If you fail the dodge roll then Graze procs and one of the 2/4 attacks is consumed.

Red Mage

Armed with enchanted rapiers and combat-caster instincts, the members of Ishgard's Order of the Crimson Blade are as recognized within the city walls as the dragoons are recognized outside its borders. Employing refined fencing skills and a slew of combat spells, these garish "magic fencers" have taken their chosen art to new levels, proudly serving as capable front line combatants with more than just a few tricks up their sleeves.

Where a traditional mage would prefer the safety of range, the red mage's talents shine in the thick of battle, swiftly crippling enemies with their blade before taking them out of the fight with a burst of magic or heal wounded allies. It is this versatility that has made them known not only for their ability to handle any situation, but to also bring things to a resolution.

Concept: Front row fighter-mage with some extra tricks and toys to bring into battle. While dealing less damage than a fencer, the Red Mage has other ways to make up for the lack of physical damage through abilities like Magic Sword and their spells.

Support Classes: THM (Thunder, Swiftcast, Sleep), CNJ (Cure, Stoneskin, Protect, Raise)

Red Mage abilities
30 Magic Sword: 20 yalm range. 3 Second cast time. Deals elementally unaspected damage with a potency of 100. Combo => Burning Blade/Frost Stab/Lightning Thrust: Instant cast. Deals additional Fire/Ice/Lightning damage with a potency of 125 (dealt separately from Magic Sword's initial damage).
35 Stun: 20 yalm range. Stuns target for up to 5 seconds. 35 second recast.
40 Chant: Sacrifice 5% of total HP to heal an ally for twice the amount sacrificed.
45 Double: Doubles the potency, cost and cooldown of the next spell or weapon skill.
50 Enflare: Decreases max MP by 20% to deal additional fire damage with 50 potency on all auto attacks and physical weapon skills. Effect ends upon reuse.

Red Mage notes:

- Magic Sword was originally designed to react to the elemental debuff placed on the mob (from BB/FS/LT). I eventually decided to simply combo it to encourage the use of Magic Sword for maximum benefit.

- Magic Sword also acts as RDM's only ranged attack, allowing it to do some damage during air phases but not by much. The prohibitive 3-second cast time also plays into this.

- Double is self-explanatory. In the case of Chant, you sacrifice double the HP to heal an ally for double the normal amount.

- Chant should have a 20% HP threshold similar to BLM's Convert. Not sure on whether it should have a prohibitive cooldown or a long cast time.

- Enflare is my nod to the JP fans from the melee RDM thread on the Final Fantasy XI forums. I'm not sure on whether to make it something that should be kept on at all times (with 20% less MP your options are a bit more limited and may be more likely to go OOM faster) or maybe a self-only buff for 30-45 seconds with a 10-minute cooldown.

Mystic Knight

During the era that housed the War of the Magi an empire seeking supremacy developed ways with which to ensorcel and fortify equipment with pure aether, giving cloth and leather the sturdiness of iron and steel. Comprising the empire's armies donning these enchanted armaments were mystic knights, men and women of great magical potential that were turned into aether-fueled bastions.

Mystic knights were more than just protectors in enchanted armor. Their training allowed them to mark thier opponents with aether, only to inflict great pain on their foes from within by manipulating their aether.

Concept: Tank job that focuses partly in parry and dodges along with some baseline damage reduction.

Support Classes: GLA (Rampart, Provoke, Flash), PGL (Featherfoot, Haymaker, Chakra)

Mechanics: The MTK soul crystals adds the "Increased Enmity" effect to Stoccata, Sanguine Pin and Fleche. Burning Blade, Frozen Stab and Lightning Thrust place an Elemental Mark on the target, which can then be spent by using Runic Blade or Shockwave.

Mystic Knight abilities
30 Mystic Armaments: Decreases damage dealt by 20% and damage taken by 10% while increasing enmity. Doubles defense and magic defense values gained from equipment. Effect ends upon reuse.
35 Runic Blade: Consumes elemental marks placed on an enemy to deal an attack for 200 potency. Increased enmity.
40 Reflect: Reduces damage from all sources by 25% for 10 seconds. If the damage comes from a magical source, 5% of the damage dealt is reflected to all enemies within 10 yalms.
45 Shockwave: Consumes elemental marks placed on an enemy to deliver an area of effect attack for 150 potency on all enemies within 10 yalms. Increased emmity.
50 Magic Barrier: Places a barrier with a 10-yalm radius at your feet that reduces damage taken by you by 90% and by all allies inside the barrier by 30% for 10 seconds.

Mystic Knight Notes:

- I'll admit part of this was inspired by the general concept of vampires (capable of manipulating a victim once the victim has some of the vampire's blood inside them).

- MTK's Marks work separately from the debuffs associated with BB/FS/LT. If a MTK were to use Burning Blade, you would see the mob get the Burn debuff along with an Elemental Mark.

- Runic Blade's concept was basically the MTK marking their opponent with BB/FS/LT then using Runic Blade to rip the inserted aether from the foe. Think Draw Out from FFVIII but it hurting the enemy. Or if you want a more direct example, the scene from the first X-men movie where Magneto rips out the iron particles from within that prison guard.

- I know Reflect is not really like Reflect in past FFs, but I'm not sure how to go about it. The job needs a defensive cooldown while it also being mechanically different from PLD. We could go the Dark Simulacrum route, but I would like opinions on that before making a call.

- The doubled armor value as well as the 10% mitigation from Mystic armaments should be enough for the job to have some baseline mitigation before you get into the cooldowns. The fact MTK scales with DEX (thus having a higher parry rating than WAR and PLD) would help set it appart.

- Having access to Rampart is a precaution on my part, as I would not want MTK to go through the mess WAR is currently going through.

- While I think Runic Blade should have a cooldown, I don't think Shockwave should have one.