HM Titan Fight

[Pikachew]

It's a healer fight and the only time the raid needs to be topped off is before the tumult. I think its fine that the fight is hard after all you get an ilvl 80/90? weapon from it.

[Xbob42]

It's a healer fight, but it's also a DPS fight. A great healer can take you far, but with high enough DPS they don't need to stress as hard because you get less tumults, all the rest is just dodge dodge dodge. And a tank using cooldowns properly in decent gear also makes it way easier. A tank who fails to add the blind from flash (PLD specifically, obviously) to each set of cooldowns is a poor tank indeed! A missed mountain buster saves a lot of healer stress, and it misses way more often than you'd think.

[Eldelphia]

It's a healer fight, but it's also a DPS fight. A great healer can take you far, but with high enough DPS they don't need to stress as hard because you get less tumults, all the rest is just dodge dodge dodge.

It's not just a healer fight. If your DPS are stupid and die. If your BRD dies and your WHM runs out of MP. If your DPS are down, the fight goes on for longer. The longer the fight goes on the harder it is to maintain the group. Last night I had what seemed like a good FC group but for a while then the WHM went sailing off the platform occasionally. The BRD couldn't keep on his feet and it didn't matter how many times you told the DRG, he couldn't get free of the bombs without taking some damage. So the group wasn't that good in the end. I'm more than happy to sit there and work it out for 2-3 hours if needed (and have) but about 5% is my best shot and I am so sick of it.

[Hooplahs]

It's the hardest fight for healer. However, your DPS should not die. I've done this for an entire week and finally got the clear... Basically you just have to memorize the entire rotation and dodge everything. Make your own group and kick people who can't dodge at all or do it with your FC on a VOIP. Don't nerf Titan because people can't memorize patterns or dodge simple things... It's so easy to dodge plumes if you know its coming before it actually casts.

[Ryuko]

You need a group that is willing to take advice, work together, and not point fingers in a negative way.

I often try to help out with any Titan runs I see shouting, but only if people actually need it for their relic. If it's advertised as a farm run, I couldn't care less because they don't need help.

In my experience, groups that require "FULL DL, MUST BEAT IT BEFORE, GEARED AND EXPERIENCED ONLY" are usually not the groups you want to run with. I've joined groups with heavy restrictions (I meet all requirements) and groups with none whatsoever. Many of the groups with heavy restrictions will point blame, refuse to take advice, and often die to things while blaming healers for not 'keeping them up'. I had one bard complain that he kept dying because healers weren't healing him. Sorry, if you're getting hit by plumes constantly, you're not my priority.

Groups with lower requirements tend to be nicer players, or perhaps they are not as hardened by doing the fight over and over again. I once joined a group eleven minutes before maintenance for the lulz. The shout advertisement was simply, "Need one more dps for titan, quick." So I joined and we one-shot it. No DL ONLY. No gear checks. No "DO YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO?" I joined a different group with people who didn't have amazing gear, no requirements... yet every single person in the group was receptive to advice and help. In one 'experienced group' I joined, one healer refused to Esuna people because they 'didn't have time to' even during heart where not esunaing TWO dps (one from the phase before) will cause most groups to not make it past the heart. I explained to him that I know it's hard, and even admitted that healing the fight is the hardest job on Titan, but Esunaing someone is absolutely necessary. He told me he didn't appreciate me telling him how to do his job. He kept ignoring advice, we kept wiping at the heart because two dps were determination downed, and the party disbanded with people pointing blame. At one point, he got the det down debuff and never Esunaed himself, thus nerfing his own healing. We wiped because his Medicas were weak and the other healer didn't have the gear to keep up alone.

The most important thing you need to win:

1) People who are willing and capable of memorizing the ability rotation and moving when they KNOW something is coming.
2) People who are willing to spend the time to 'get it right'.
3) People who won't post blame, but will be able to come up with constructive criticism/ideas to make the fight easier.
4) Preferably, at least one person in the fight will be so experienced that he/she will be able to explain EVERY SINGLE MECHANIC in the fight, right down to tank positioning, what to do during bombs, healer rotations, etc. I used to get in voicechat with people who were new to the fight and call out every ability that happened. This helped a lot of new players clear the fight easily.

[silentwindfr]

the point is this fight difficulty is not at the right place, later in bahamut coil, where you can only enter with people of your server, hell yes i want stuff hard like this. but there where is doable in DF, is way too much!
i'm not sure of how many people have succeed in DF and how many group have fail. indeed, some come from the fact that people need to know perfectly the fight or are undergear, that a fact we can't ignore.... but... if you compare to garuda fight is like day and night difference, is too much in term of progression of difficulty.

the worst is the fact that latency impact a looot this fight... some people have trouble of lag and they can't pass this fight because of this. they need to tune down this fight at how hard it must really be, between garuda fight and CT! because it the position of this fight in the progression.

Titan drop ilevel 70, ct will drop ilevel 80, BC drop ilevel 90...however, people often admit that titan is harder than Turn 1 and 2 of BC. not more complex, but harder, demanding, punishing.

if they want to test people for know if they are ready for get into harder fight, they mustn't do it in fight of 8 people. if you want to test person capacity, you must test this person, like they have done it in the secret world with the keeper. a really demanding, punishing and hard fight at do solo, for test your capacity to face the futur challenge.

i will never say it enough, Titan difficulty is unbalanced for him position in the progression! and it need a balance fix, i dunno how, but it's needed!! a lot of people begin to hate this game because of this fight. a lot of person, really really loose the fun of this game because of this fight! it's maybe time to rethink it.

[ChickensEvil]

While I will agree that BC turn 1-3 is easier from a DPS perspective, I wouldn't call titan "hard". It is just a huge memorization game, and if you get lazy for one second you are done. Honestly, Turn 2 is exactly the same, don't pass the rot, done. Don't interrupt properly, done. I think it is "easier" just because it seems like there is less going on, but you almost need less to be going on since you have to keep your eyes glued to the threat meter the entire time (all that tank swapping is really hurtful to their threat management).

I actually still enjoy Titan, and I like how the fight works and runs, so I don't know why people think it is uninteresting or whatever. The only thing that makes it horrid is people that can't do what they are supposed to do even after being at the fight for 3+ hours... I think there hits a point where you peak out, and it is just downhill from there... since people get fatigued.

Also, it was said before but a strong healer can carry the fight, we actually had a SCH in the guild solo heal P5 because the other healer died right from the start. But even at that you still need DPS to do what they are supposed to do.

edit: Just because this fight is one-tankable doesn't mean that was the intended route. Your dps should be pulling their weight and you can clear the heart with a "proper" group just fine (the other tank will just go into a DPS stance and be fine). It's just that because the fight can be one tanked, most do, and it allows a little more room for error by bringing in an extra DPS.

[silentwindfr]

@ChickenEvil: some point i can't let you say, without react:
- an healer in full DL with garuda weapon can't solo heal this fight! it's impossible especially in p5. where the tank take huge damage and the group too.
- a tank, especially the paladin, will never be able to pull a good dps enough, the group will need to build LB bar, means attack in auto-attack for more of 5 minutes. war can almost get a decent dps, by using heitaros armor and garuda axe, but it will not be amazing.

finally do you realize that you put it to the same level than a fight that is 2 tier later? i means titan is Ilevel 70, BC is ilevel 90, you have CT between the two! is not even as difficult as the turn 1, no, is as hard than turn 2 or 3....

@NarwhalShadowsun: indeed the fight is not extremely complex, the trouble is the difficulty. the fact that any error will lead you to your doom. when is not even the last tier of fight, you have bahamut coil and crystal tower after!

ps: the most scary about this... is they have planned to release an extreme version of this fight... personally i don't see how they can make this fight harder, exept increase the stat for cover the equipement player will have. as it is, this fight is already demanding and punishing enough for be the extreme version.

ohhh before i forget, if you talk of this fight while doing it with people using relic, ilevel 90 stuff it's loose all credibility, this fight is means to be done in DL and with garuda weapon.

[ChickensEvil]

@silentwindfr: But the fight isn't 0 room for error. Trust me, I see people get hit by bombs and plumes all the time and we still survive and make it through. Is it harder on the healers? sure. But it is still not a 0 room for error. The only ability that has near 0 room for error is landslide. Plumes only hit that level if A: you are way under health, or B: are stacking the plumes in the middle (in which you just made that mechanic have 0 room for error by using that strat).

Also, it should be clarified that the reason it was 1 healable for us, was because A: we had a very competent SCH (I don't know what is with all the SCH hate, because he was amazing in that fight, however yes, in order to solo heal you would need to be Full DL + garuda which is substantially over geared for that fight, why? because that was exactly what the healer had... so don't tell me it is "impossible"). B: we had very competent DPS on that attempt and I don't remember seeing anyone take unnecessary damage in P5 (this is huge because the healer gets to just focus on the considerable damage hitting the tank). C: DPS was helping to mitigate the damage on the tank... honestly this should be happening no matter what, but I am sure this helped out to solo heal it as well. Virus and Rain of Death are AMAZING for this fight, if you are running with a SCH or BLM and they are not using this (or in the case of the BLM doesn't have it) then shame on them. And I would never do Titan without at least 1 BRD.

Sorry that you have been running with shit healers, but it isn't impossible when I have seen it. (Honestly, I didn't realize how good a SCH could be until I ran with our FC healer, so I can understand to some level your skepticism).

And, no I didn't put it on the same level as BC, I said that it was "easier" to some degree. But they are challenging in different ways... hence the quotes around easy. Turn 2 is a tank fight more than anything, so they didn't tax the dps too hard because they wanted the tanks to not be stupid. Whereas tanking on titan is a huge snorefest. In case you wanted to know here is how to tank titan:


Considering you can outgear Titan to the point where people are 5 manning the dungeon, I have to go with, it isn't as hard as BC, overall.

[Taruranto]

Titan is hard because people don't bother memorizing the patterns. Sure, lag is a problem, i won't deny it, but once you get past it, it's ALL about pattern. Gods know how many healers I saw not pre-casting succor/medica or use skills as SS before P5 stomps. That's why so many people want 3 healers for Titan, not because it reduces "the stress on healers on p5", but because many of them just don't know the fight.

Once you get past the heart, if at least 2 or 3 of your DPS are semi-competent you should be able to do it, provide your and the other healer are capable. I run Titan daily for random shouts and I've helped over 20 groups. I did it with 2 sch, war tank, 2 tank, and all the kind of combinations, DPS fall and die in P5 all the time, but I generally manage to keep to keep the remaining members afloat.

Honestly, at this point i find Ifrit and his freacking annoying 2h much harder.