I hope this game doesn't become like FFXI

[Kensaki]

Games that offer zero challenge don't have any replay value at all. This is a FF game, and as such, it should require quite a bit of effort to master. I'll refrain from saying the proverbial, "go back to wow/warhammer/rift/etc" if you want a cakewalk, but this game is laughably easy in its current state.

The funny thing is all those MMO's you mentioned have a much harder endgame than FFXIV atm.

[Jennestia]

Most retro games in general are more fun than most games today.

Pretty much. That's why a lot of popular indie games have been 2D "old school" games, e.g Castle Crashers or Super Meatboy.

[Drex]

See, even a 2D flash game is more fun than FFXIV. lol. That's sad.

there you got a solution for your problems...

no more need to whine about a sucking game

[Duelle]

If you bring such bold argument, then ffxi it's the most difficult mmorpg ever: pre-abyssea absolute virtue and pandemonium warden were unbeatable without bugs and glitches...

Both were also stupidly overtuned with hidden gimmicks to them. Those don't make difficult boss encounters.

An actually difficult encounter would involve movement to encourage situational awareness. A boss mechanic or four that you have to watch out for, know how to mitigate or avoid altogether. Environmental hazards where applicable or races against time to act as a soft enrage timer (the "do damage to the boss before his damage makes your healers run out of MP" variety). Limitations on player character resources where applicable. Temporary raid member incapacitation where applicable.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, FFXI's encounters boil down to AoE status effects, don't feed the mob TP, nuke from the distance (mostly the kings and gods), don't feed the mob TP, pray your debuffs land, don't feed the mob TP, the occasional cheese mechanic (charm, stripga) and (in the case of abyssea) absorbs X type damage when in Y mode. I realize a lot of this stems from the fact that you can't do much more seeing how player characters move and the lack of quick control response. Still, I wouldn't want such unimaginative encounter design to make a return in XIV.

That being said, yes, I think it's dumb for people to say XI had the hardest encounters in the MMO genre. Firstly because it far from the truth, secondly because I would never give a game with such uncreative encounter design that title.

[Ostia]

Both were also stupidly overtuned with hidden gimmicks to them. Those don't make difficult boss encounters.

An actually difficult encounter would involve movement to encourage situational awareness. A boss mechanic or four that you have to watch out for, know how to mitigate or avoid altogether. Environmental hazards where applicable or races against time to act as a soft enrage timer (the "do damage to the boss before his damage makes your healers run out of MP" variety). Limitations on player character resources where applicable. Temporary raid member incapacitation where applicable.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, FFXI's encounters boil down to AoE status effects, don't feed the mob TP, nuke from the distance (mostly the kings and gods), don't feed the mob TP, pray your debuffs land, don't feed the mob TP, the occasional cheese mechanic (charm, stripga) and (in the case of abyssea) absorbs X type damage when in Y mode. I realize a lot of this stems from the fact that you can't do much more seeing how player characters move and the lack of quick control response. Still, I wouldn't want such unimaginative encounter design to make a return in XIV.

That being said, yes, I think it's dumb for people to say XI had the hardest encounters in the MMO genre. Firstly because it far from the truth, secondly because I would never give a game with such uncreative encounter design that title.

QFT!!!


Now wear your flame shield <.<

[Ostia]

Best argument ever. every game have their fair share of uber boss, not imply ffxi was easy.
If you bring such bold argument, then ffxi it's the most difficult mmorpg ever: pre-abyssea absolute virtue and pandemonium warden were unbeatable without bugs and glitches...

Because they where broken... not because they where hard, hell C'thun was broken at first, that's not a difficult boss fight or a smart boss fight design, that's just bad design period. That would be like Blizzard releasing LK in vanilla wow, with the health/stats of WOTLK, he would be unkillable, but not because the fight itself is hard, but because it would be impossible.

[Radaghast]

This game needs to be easier. Why am I forced to even get out of bed to login? Need a blowtube machine that can do it for me.

[Drex]

Both were also stupidly overtuned with hidden gimmicks to them. Those don't make difficult boss encounters.

An actually difficult encounter would involve movement to encourage situational awareness. A boss mechanic or four that you have to watch out for, know how to mitigate or avoid altogether. Environmental hazards where applicable or races against time to act as a soft enrage timer (the "do damage to the boss before his damage makes your healers run out of MP" variety). Limitations on player character resources where applicable. Temporary raid member incapacitation where applicable.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, FFXI's encounters boil down to AoE status effects, don't feed the mob TP, nuke from the distance (mostly the kings and gods), don't feed the mob TP, pray your debuffs land, don't feed the mob TP, the occasional cheese mechanic (charm, stripga) and (in the case of abyssea) absorbs X type damage when in Y mode. I realize a lot of this stems from the fact that you can't do much more seeing how player characters move and the lack of quick control response. Still, I wouldn't want such unimaginative encounter design to make a return in XIV.

That being said, yes, I think it's dumb for people to say XI had the hardest encounters in the MMO genre. Firstly because it far from the truth, secondly because I would never give a game with such uncreative encounter design that title.

You should forgive us ffxi players who think that the game was hard.

To kill HNM you needed for sure organization, set up, skilled and equiped char.

When you learn how to menage a fight, then everything gets easier, but its not only for FFXI, its for all games.

Can you please tell us which game in the last 10years can be considered hard then?? im sooo curiuos....

[Duelle]

You should forgive us ffxi players who think that the game was hard.

To kill HNM you needed for sure organization, set up, skilled and equiped char.

Difference between what you're saying here and what I'm saying is that I am contesting the claim FFXI has the hardest encounters in the MMO genre.

When you learn how to manage a fight, then everything gets easier, but its not only for FFXI, its for all games.

Yes, I agree. That has nothing to do with what I'm talking about, though.

As far as examples, I've already named several.

[Zantetsuken]

You should forgive us ffxi players who think that the game was hard.

To kill HNM you needed for sure organization, set up, skilled and equiped char.

When you learn how to menage a fight, then everything gets easier, but its not only for FFXI, its for all games.

Can you please tell us which game in the last 10years can be considered hard then?? im sooo curiuos....

Demons'/Dark Souls? But even that isn't too difficult by old-school standards... Nothing today is even close to Ninja Gaiden I, TMNT, or Castlevania I for NES.

On FFXI,

Personally, I liked the difficulty of the CoP battles back before the multiple nerfs. It really meant something in the game to have access to Sea/Limbus/etc.. Even getting to Tavnazian Safehold was a neat achievement after slogging through the Promyvians.

I'd say the closest thing to that difficulty would be Raven Nevermore and Ifrit Extreme fights. But even then, CoP had much more of a 'luck' factor in some of those battles (Snoll fight took me 9x *shudder*)

From what I see, ARR will be much more approachable at early levels and will scale more smoothly in difficulty as you approach endgame. Although, we don't know exactly how the devs will use level synching (or capping, even) in dungeons.

Sadly, many of use are too busy to actually spend the amount of time it takes to work through an old-school FFXI time-sink, and Yoshi-P understands this.