I hope this game doesn't become like FFXI

[Elexia]

Unprepared meaning without the"right" gear and the "right" jobs.

Unprepared means unprepared.

You can have the right jobs and right gear but if you're unprepared things can still go wrong. Just like you can fuck up brewing (aka god mode) NMs if you're unprepared and don't know that certain monsters have and can gain different immunities at x point or during y parameter (casting/ws/attack etc) or can actually charm you and screw you over (i.e Rani) so you need to prepare how you'll deal with the charm for example.

I'll admit, it's a lot easier to ignore what being unprepared means if it'll kill your argument. When you were a kid (or still are, I don't know) didn't you ever hear the phrase "being unprepared for school"? That generally means a lot more than just not having the right gear.

[Rustyhagun]

Because FFXI in its EQ-timesink-copying glory would not have held a candle to the likes of rift and WoW.I'm starting to get tired of seeing people say crap like this.

The "challenge" in FFXI was having enough time set aside to get anything done. If you weren't the "right" job you were stuck waiting for hours for a party. Same thing for missions, because everyone went for the "best" and "most efficient" strategies, nevermind how you felt or how you preffered to play a class that due to the developers' screw ups in design turned out to become unpopular. There was no skill involved because all you had to do was stack stats against everything tossed at you by swapping gear mid-combat. And things that are supposed to be features and additional things in the game were designed to be inconvenient to the player to create more timesinks. Timesinks and stat stacking do not make a game difficult.

Now try and tell me why things like Sarth+3, Firefighter and Alone in the Darkness were easymode.

^That is a silly statement to make. FFXI was a fun challenging game. When CoP came out(best exp ever) it was a challenge to clear the 3 promy area's to gain access to the new area. If you didnt have people that knew what they were doing you would end up doing promy runs for months. Doing one promy run with a set of good people took 45 mins top. But it was a fun 45 mins.

If you play games like DoTa2 where matches can last up to 45-50 mins. those are fun time sinks. That's what FFXI had, a fun challenge that took a reasonable amount of time to complete.

I'll say it again. Gamers this generation have gotten soft. Because it seems only the UO, EQ1, FFXI & DAoC player base want FFXIV to be a fun challenging game. (lucky for us Yoshi love DAoC, he's old school) <--OP and the rest are in for a big surprise.

If it takes an 1hr30mins to run a quest line then so be it. Its all about the journey, and 5 years from now you will talk about that same journey.

I loved how CoP was broken down into missions, chapters. Actually all of FFXI was like that. Bring mission,chapters back to FFXIV.

-Scaling up a mountain side to reach an objective, and if you fell you had to start over again.
-Running the sewer in CoP and seeing the door right their, but it being 1 level up you had to go around the sewer to find the ramp to get to the door.

Awesome design. And I know we won't get it in FFXIV cause they have jump now. unless they make where jumping is just out of reach of a platform.

I said it in another topic. But to keep an MMO going you need to have challenges and time sinks of some sort. Or you game will not last 4 months. That's just the bottom line. I want FF14 to go on for 10 years and have the same feel FFXI gave me. Of adventure and loads of stuff to do, and not knowing were to begin.

[Duelle]

That is a silly statement to make.

It's even sillier to quote something said by me almost nineteen months ago. Then again, I am bothering to respond to you, so this may be a case of "who's more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?".

FFXI was a fun challenging game. When CoP came out(best exp ever) it was a challenge to clear the 3 promy area's to gain access to the new area. If you didnt have people that knew what they were doing you would end up doing promy runs for months.

You say that as if its a good thing. It isn't when you have people who paid for the damn content and not getting to see it between design and other limitations set in place. Aside from denying people content (in case you forgot, the CoP zones were the least populated zones in the game up until they removed the level caps and made the consummables sellable in the AH), it also split the playerbase, as in their ignorance those who got to Tavnazia and eventually made it to Al'taieu got inflated heads. I still remember the "n0 nubz in MY sea" dribble.

Doing one promy run with a set of good people took 45 mins top. But it was a fun 45 mins.

As a concept, I think the promyvions were decent. Execution was severely lacking between the bosses requiring consumables that at the time of release were stupidly ambiguous, no real incentive to get the map as it is largely useless, not to mention the mobs above floor 2 were much higher level than you to the point that (unlike the console FFs) you could not fight your way up. The level cap was probably the worst thing in that deal, as it literally crippled jobs that were dependent on their higher level abilities to function.

I'll say it again. Gamers this generation have gotten soft. Because it seems only the UO, EQ1, FFXI & DAoC player base want FFXIV to be a fun challenging game.

Oh, please. I did my time in FFXI. I also did the mother of all grinds in Lineage II and did some RO (another grinder). This isn't about people going soft, and more about the fact that people these days (rightfully) demand better design and better approaches to elongate the life of the game. Design that equates to one mistake costing you several hours of progress, or that is heavily RNG dependent, or that requires specific set ups for anything, will no longer cut it in this day and age. Didn't cut it back then either, but there was little in terms of variety in MMOs.

(lucky for us Yoshi love DAoC, he's old school) <--OP and the rest are in for a big surprise.

Yoshida Naoki has also looked at modern MMOs like WoW, Rift, TOR and GW2, and has scared several people here by saying XIV could be "WoW meets Final Fantasy" just like XI was "EQ meets Final Fantasy". All his background with DaoC tells me is that Yoshida knows what has to go into balancing PvP, which I am frankly looking forward to seeing for myself as more info on ARR is revealed.

Scaling up a mountain side to reach an objective, and if you fell you had to start over again.

Fun in a single-player RPG. Terranigma and Illussion of Gaia had something like that at one point, if I recall. As did Chrono Trigger with Death Peak. The difference is that the mobs around the mountain were things you wanted to avoid fighting due to being a pain in the ass to fight, unlike the standard mobs in any of the three aforementioned games, where if you screwed up all it meant was that you had to fight your way back up to that spot. You didn't cringe if you messed up in Death's Peak. You cringed, bitched and could even ragequit if you messed up climbing the Cradle of Rebirth. Worst of it is that when you did, you wasted the time of several other players, not just you.

Running the sewer in CoP and seeing the door right their, but it being 1 level up you had to go around the sewer to find the ramp to get to the door.

Except that most people just sent someone with stacks of Invis Powder and Sneak Oil to go around, aggro the Taur and have him draw in the whole party over to the boss room.

I said it in another topic. But to keep an MMO going you need to have challenges and time sinks of some sort.

No one, past or present, question this. That XIV will have timesinks is pretty damn obvious, as MMORPGs are built around them. The more important issue is whether it'll be timesinks for the sake of timesinks, or timesinks blended within gameplay in a way that the player barely feels it, if at all.

[Zenaku]

FFXI was hard and it was ok for that time but soon dumbass wow came the challenge of mmo went to easy mode. But FFXIV right now is more casual then WoW,rift,aion. I sure don't want FFXIV to be just like FFXI but i do want the challenge that FFXI had to come to ffxiv we all can agree we can have a challenge and still be casual right?

So for the love of god when you talk about casual say you want it to be casual and have a challenge not just full on casual with no challenge at all.

[Kailea_Nagisa]

I really hope that this game doesn't become like FFXI. I hate Final Fantasy XI with a passion!! That game was too hardcore!!!

Otherwise I quit this game for good!!!

this is where you are wrong, this game needs to be more like FFXI in some ways, when FFXIV started, they wanted to be so different from FFXI, they screwed it all up.... now they are fixing it, and as you can see, it is becoming more like FFXI every patch, and honestly to alot of us.... that is perfectly fine.

[Draco]

Reguardless of how you feel about FFXI, if this game would have taken a blue print from FFXI ( which they should have ) and created some unque ideas to their MMO, such as, Guild Leve System, soloable XP mobs, a brand new story line, quest hub camps, and a few others, this game would be a pay to play game with over 400k subscribers today. FFXI was a great game and I can only hope that this game moves more and more towards adopting more if it's core fundiments.

[Zenaku]

Reguardless of how you feel about FFXI, if this game would have taken a blue print from FFXI ( which they should have ) and created some unque ideas to their MMO, such as, Guild Leve System, soloable XP mobs, a brand new story line, quest hub camps, and a few others, this game would be a pay to play game with over 400k subscribers today. FFXI was a great game and I can only hope that this game moves more and more towards adopting more if it's core fundiments.

If they added everything ffxi have and then added FFXIV stuff and mix in a new battle system and class system this game would have 85% of FFXI players and new players for years and right now we wont be talking about it on here we be playing ffxiv lol.

[Blitz0309]

I really hope that this game doesn't become like FFXI. I hate Final Fantasy XI with a passion!! That game was too hardcore!!!

Otherwise I quit this game for good!!!

Yeah, it would be a shame to see it still going fairly strong after a decade... oh wait...

Weren't you on hellokitty island adventure?

[Aigeas]

What i meant Vesperia was that you should see what crap you were writing yourself. You jump in and call FF XI community nerds...

1st of all, Nerds exist in every game. But not all the community in any game are nerds. But aside that, FF XI nerds and non FFXI nerds, were gamers. And customers. All of them. Why you characterize and dislike FF XI community, i dont understand, but if you have a problem with FF XI community, go pay a visit to a doctor to help you solve it.

It is a fact that FF 11 community would be their main customer base. Wether you like it or not. Other ppl's posts agree to that too as you will see if you read back. And i know many ppl, gamers and friends from FF 11 that were gonna move to FF 14, Having the hope of an improved FF 11 , improved, as keeping 11’s good elements, the challenge, the difficulty, the gameplay etc, and addressing/improving 11’s negative elements.

And so again, FF XIV was not FF XI, it was something else. Most of the FF XI community that had hopes, tried it and most of them left or stayed away from it, Including all of my friends from FF XI. And they had friends who would also move from FF 11 to 14 with that in mind, but they didn’t. And You could see that in posts in various forums. So here is the base I can rely my fact that Most FF 11 community would move if FF 14 was similar.

About new players, the ones you imply they would leave/never join if FF 14 was FF 11, also left at a different - from FF 11 - FF14. Now, FF 14, turns into an improved FF 11 because simply 14 failed not being such a thing. Wether you like it or not. Go take your pills to get over it. Since you seem to have mental problem with it.

Also you say that FF XI would fail if it was released today. I present you again, the fact that FF XI was released on 360 at a time not far away from now, and it increased the base customer drastically. Where do you base that it wouldn’t? lol To me, the whole publish and sales of FF XI in 360 not many years ago, the increase of customer base cus of it, and the fact that FF 14 leans towards FF 11 now to gather customers, proves your word of failing, bullshit…

[Evenstar]

It needs to become harder, but that doesn't equal becoming more time consuming like in grinding your ass off .....

Hard fights are cool, party based hard PvE content is cool, camping 3 hours to only see someone else with a bot or a better ping claim a HNM is not cool ...