How does everyone feel about skill speed?

[Aratak]

Example (assuming AA DPS = GCD DPS at 100 potency):
-> 4.~% * 2.4 / (2.4 +1) -> roughly 2.8~% to 3% rel. DPS increase for melding speed

Didn't understand exactly what you meant with the effects of speed on DOT's.
(Is it that you can "miss" a tick depending on the length of timegap between reapliing the DOT?)
Not considering that effect, I would agree that speed and crit are roughly on par in that example.

I would also like to hear your opinion on speed allowing better rotations; seems you know what you
are talking about.
For DRG specifically I think you could get an additional action in the timeframe of an Heavy Thrust
buff at about 585 base skillspeed and using speedfood.
That amount of skillspeed is very much possible to get with endgame gear when you are dedicated.

[Supersun]

DOT fallacy: skill speed improves DOT uptime. The actual damage delta (due to server DOT timing) is variable and more of a simulation exercise than anything. For a modeling exercise, DOT damage is increased directly with increased uptime.

Edit: Clarification: the fact that SS does not increase tick rate would be more impacting at higher values of skill speed -- e.g. after the SS stops improving uptime. However, for practical values of SS, it improves uptime.

Depends on the DoT.

Bio II for example has a 30 second duration. The default 2.5 GDC divides cleanly into it and each additional GDC reduction up until 2.4 either forces you to sacrifice Bio II uptime or clip your Bio II early.

[NefGP]

Here's the thing though, you're assuming that you can just continuously spam skills and you can't, and this is where crit jumps ahead.

Fights like Titan for example, demand you stay mobile and thus interrupts your attack cycle. In these instances, skill speed is wasted because you can only nudge in so many attacks before having to move again whereas Crit Rate can greatly increase the value of said limited strikes. In a vacuum with unlimited TP, skill speed would likely (eventually) win out with enough of it stacked. However, from what I've personally seen and read (does anyone know if Kanican still plays?) the consensus does appear to be that skill speed is trash. Spell speed is only marginally better because it also affects casting times and not just the recast which can be a big deal for WHM & SCH.

Given the choice, I'd take crit rate & determination every time over skill speed.

[Aratak]

Fights like Titan for example, demand you stay mobile and thus interrupts your attack cycle. In these instances, skill speed is wasted because you can only nudge in so many attacks before having to move again whereas Crit Rate can greatly increase the value of said limited strikes.

I think I know what you are refering to. In case you got for example 10 sec to do damage, then you can do 4 attacks at 2.5 GCD and also 4 attacks when you had 2.4 and the speed had no effect.
In that example you would be right; speed did not cause more damage.

But in practice the times you can do damage are basically random variables (because you dodged for 0.8 seconds instead 0.6 seconds for example).

Basically when your attacks come in an frequency that is 10% higher you will have statistically an 10% higher chance to apply an additional attack in each of those cases.

[EasymodeX]

Here's the thing though, you're assuming that you can just continuously spam skills and you can't, and this is where crit jumps ahead.

1. Bards can continuously spam skills more than most classes.

2. Crit doesn't jump ahead. It also stops when you can't continuously spam skills.

whereas Crit Rate can greatly increase the value of said limited strikes

Greatly? No.

Small amounts of skill speed is very much like small amounts of crit -- they're both unnoticeable.

the consensus does appear to be that skill speed is trash

Sometimes the consensus is that the Earth is flat.

I don't really care about the consensus. Skill speed is weak, but random idiots pretend it doesn't increase DPS at all, which is not true. They'd gladly trade away 30 SS for 5 DET or CRT or something, which is asinine.

[EasymodeX]

To evaluate the 4.~% in terms of relative DPS increase. I could calculate a factor with the knowledge of my AA DPS and my GCD abillities DPS at 100 potency multiplied by an guessed value based on my average potency on GCD abillities I use while fighting. That guessed value would be dependent on the used rotation and the conditions of the fight (interrutions etc.).

Hum, you don't need to go to that level of detail. Basically, get a copy of someone's relatively decent parse and:

1. Find what % of total DPS is on-GCD (susceptible to SS), then increase that by 4.2%.
2. Add that to the remainder that is not modified by SS and subtract by 1.0.

E.g. if AAs are 29%, and OGCDs are 15%, then your on-GCD damage is 56%. 56% * 1.042 = 58.352. 58.352 + 29 + 15 = 102.352. Minus 100 is 2.35% increase in total DPS from the 100 SS.

Didn't understand exactly what you meant with the effects of speed on DOT's.
(Is it that you can "miss" a tick depending on the length of timegap between reapliing the DOT?)

Yes. DOT ticks happen every 3s on the server's timing. It doesn't track how much time you have left on the DOT debuff, only that the mob has your debuff on them.

Theoretically, adding SS will reduce the gap between DOTs, increasing the likelihood of covering the missed server ticks.

Sidenote: needs to be validated through simulation or advanced modeling.

For DRG specifically I think you could get an additional action in the timeframe of an Heavy Thrust
buff at about 585 base skillspeed and using speedfood.

The issue is that the Dragoon "good filler" is a 3-part TTT chain. No reasonable amount of SS will allow you 3 additional GCDs in a normal sequence of attacks. High SS will result in injecting a Fracture into the rotation, but that's about it, unless you get to really crazy amounts of SS.

Either way, it's not worth stacking even in the 585 range. All the way up to 585 the points would be better invested in CRT/DET, and after that, still CRT. And that doesn't factor the higher TP/s cost -- you'd be burning about 6-8% more total TP (or ~20% more TP after regen is removed).

[Yiell]

same here. I would use skill speed so that I have better chances in keeping up grease lightning even while dodging AOEs or switching target to adds.

[raikage]

Skill speed gives very low returns (0.01 decrease per 10 points) and in you are TP capped in any fight that goes longer than 2 minutes. 491 Skillspeed (at this point you can comfortably swap between Twin Snakes and True Strike) and then crit after that.

[EasymodeX]

Skill speed gives very low returns (0.01 decrease per 10 points) and in you are TP capped in any fight that goes longer than 2 minutes. 491 Skillspeed (at this point you can comfortably swap between Twin Snakes and True Strike) and then crit after that.

I like how you say Skill Speed gives very low returns, and then you mention a 150 skill speed breakpoint.

[pandabearcat]

I like how you say Skill Speed gives very low returns, and then you mention a 150 skill speed breakpoint.

I think his point is stacking it is useless, but you want a certain amount to do a certain thing.

aka value is terribad until hitting the breakpoint.