Multiple Classes is a lie

[Kikosho]

You can. You just can't get the best gear for all of them in a week.

Actually you can. You make alt characters instead of leveling jobs on a single character.

Besides, no one is asking to max gear in a week. We're asking for the limits to be adjusted so we can put more effort into gearing our characters than possible. More effort = more rewards.

Question for you, what's your opinion on 1.0s fatigue system?

No, I'm utilizing my instant AK queues as a Warrior to speed up the Tome farming process for my Monk when my friends aren't around. Forcing a job specific cap would mean i can no longer play my Tank and gear my DPS. That would be terrible.

I'm pretty sure you can't gear Monk in AF1 and it's Relic weapon without being on that job. So yes, there is already precedence in-game where you need to do content on the job you want to gear.

[C-croft]

I'm pretty sure you can't gear Monk in AF1 and it's Relic weapon without being on that job. So yes, there is already precedence in-game where you need to do content on the job you want to gear.

Yes, yes you can. Relic weapon, has to be done manually. But the rest.... you can.

PS: I am assuming you are referring to AF+1, as AF1=AF, and if you are unable to obtain that, you have no business gearing up the character at all.

[C-croft]

Actually you can. You make alt characters instead of leveling jobs on a single character.

Besides, no one is asking to max gear in a week. We're asking for the limits to be adjusted so we can put more effort into gearing our characters than possible. More effort = more rewards.

Question for you, what's your opinion on 1.0s fatigue system?

Should have just quoted the whole thing....

You say that no one is asking to max gear, but what some people are asking for grants them the ability to try and max gear ASAP. It may not be a week, but let's not pretend that some people won't do it. Just like they ground CM to the ground for Darklight in a week, or for the more 'hardcore' a couple days. Let's turn down the naivety.

The fatigue system was to slow progression of your character and 'encourage' leveling other classes. That was crap. The game does not halt your progression. Just the top tier gear you can obtain for now. Keywords, for now. Two separate scenarios.

[Kikosho]

Yes, yes you can. Relic weapon, has to be done manually. But the rest.... you can.

PS: I am assuming you are referring to AF+1, as AF1=AF, and if you are unable to obtain that, you have no business gearing up the character at all.

By AF1 I did mean the original AF. My point when I made that comment was that maybe Job gear should at least be something that you have to earn while being on that job, thus showing your proficiency in the job. The game already doesn't let you Need on gear without being that role in a dungeon so at the least the idea of getting first dibs cause you made the effort to fulfill a role is present. There's other avenues to gear alt jobs equally without being on the job (AK, Coil, eventually CT as well) so it's not like that option is completely taken away from you.

Should have just quoted the whole thing....

You say that no one is asking to max gear, but what some people are asking for grants them the ability to try and max gear ASAP. It may not be a week, but let's not pretend that some people won't do it. Just like they ground CM to the ground for Darklight in a week, or for the more 'hardcore' a couple days. Let's turn down the naivety.

The fatigue system was to slow progression of your character and 'encourage' leveling other classes. That was crap. The game does not halt your progression. Just the top tier gear you can obtain for now. Keywords, for now. Two separate scenarios.

It's not naivety, I do realize people will no-life to max. So what? These players exist in every single MMO They exist right now with people that have max DL or HQ crafted gear for all jobs, all relics, all crafting classes. Max gear ASAP you say? 5~ months to max Myth on all jobs is ASAP? Especially when you have to put in 9 times the effort? I would say, at least I have a reason to log in. I don't even necessarily agree with how we get Myth gear either. Grinding easy dungeons for job gear equivalent to gear that drops from the hardest content is about as equivalent to grinding fates to level cap.

I do find it funny that you mention that the game doesn't halt your progression and then say that it does the very next sentence. Once you cap your levels, part of character progression is getting better gear, so yes, it does halt progression. We don't know how SE will go about progression in future patches but they have already hinted that it's not going to change. When new gear comes out (the new top tier) older gear will be easier to get... but it's still the same situation that we are at right now.

This entire argument is moot anyway since the Devs officially mentioned they aren't changing anything. People that want to maximize multiple jobs will just level multiple characters.

[C-croft]

By AF1 I did mean the original AF. My point when I made that comment was that maybe Job gear should at least be something that you have to earn while being on that job, thus showing your proficiency in the job. The game already doesn't let you Need on gear without being that role in a dungeon so at the least the idea of getting first dibs cause you made the effort to fulfill a role is present. There's other avenues to gear alt jobs equally without being on the job (AK, Coil, eventually CT as well) so it's not like that option is completely taken away from you.



It's not naivety, I do realize people will no-life to max. So what? These players exist in every single MMO They exist right now with people that have max DL or HQ crafted gear for all jobs, all relics, all crafting classes. Max gear ASAP you say? 5~ months to max Myth on all jobs is ASAP? Especially when you have to put in 9 times the effort? I would say, at least I have a reason to log in. I don't even necessarily agree with how we get Myth gear either. Grinding easy dungeons for job gear equivalent to gear that drops from the hardest content is about as equivalent to grinding fates to level cap.

I do find it funny that you mention that the game doesn't halt your progression and then say that it does the very next sentence. Once you cap your levels, part of character progression is getting better gear, so yes, it does halt progression. We don't know how SE will go about progression in future patches but they have already hinted that it's not going to change. When new gear comes out (the new top tier) older gear will be easier to get... but it's still the same situation that we are at right now.

This entire argument is moot anyway since the Devs officially mentioned they aren't changing anything. People that want to maximize multiple jobs will just level multiple characters.

The AF gear is secondary. The quests give you job specific abilities. It's really not about the gear. You can FATE grind past the job quests and equip tome farmed gear and go back and do the quests. The gear is handed to you like all of the other quests that give you gear.

The max gear comment is what people want, not how it is now. You are the one who stated that no one wants everything now. Then turn around and say yes these people exist. Honestly, I think 5 months is overkill, but I don't blame SE for putting in some controls.

And you are mistaken in your halting of progression. Fatigue slowed your experience gain. Meaning you can't complete content, you can't xp, you can't level(effectively). You get some xp and it became disgusting and masochistic to level beyond that. Getting more gear to speed your coil run is not progression in the same sense, as you have hit level cap and can still complete current content. You can complete coil without AF2+1relic whatever it is called. The progression you are referring to is two completely different scenarios. I am not even including the AF2 and the coil drops on top of that. Progression beyond coil is on pause until it is released. Even WoW doesn't let you get it all right away.


PS: Perhaps you should make your point clear the first time you quote someone.

[Kikosho]

The AF gear is secondary. The quests give you job specific abilities. It's really not about the gear. You can FATE grind past the job quests and equip tome farmed gear and go back and do the quests. The gear is handed to you like all of the other quests that give you gear.

The max gear comment is what people want, not how it is now. You are the one who stated that no one wants everything now. Then turn around and say yes these people exist. Honestly, I think 5 months is overkill, but I don't blame SE for putting in some controls.

And you are mistaken in your halting of progression. Fatigue slowed your experience gain. Meaning you can't complete content, you can't xp, you can't level(effectively). You get some xp and it became disgusting and masochistic to level beyond that. Getting more gear to speed your coil run is not progression in the same sense, as you have hit level cap and can still complete current content. You can complete coil without AF2+1relic whatever it is called. The progression you are referring to is two completely different scenarios. I am not even including the AF2 and the coil drops on top of that. Progression beyond coil is on pause until it is released. Even WoW doesn't let you get it all right away.


PS: Perhaps you should make your point clear the first time you quote someone.

The point was clear enough honestly. There's job gear ingame that you can only attain by completing the content as that specific job. Besides, you're the one that made the assumption that I was referring to AF+1 (or whatever the hell people wanna call it, myth, af2, relic, neon glow af) to begin with.

You still miss the point though concerning gearing multiple jobs with the highest tier so no point going over it again cause you fail to understand people's explanations. That aside, SE made it extremely easy to gear up in DL (and Myth) so it's no surprise people are able to max out.

It's also apparent we have different definitions of what constitutes progression. Gearing is part of progression at endgame. You increase your stats just as you would leveling and your character gets stronger. Using your example, why bother getting DL when content up to Titan can be done in AF? I'm not sure why you even bothered to mention content beyond Coil either.

[Sylve]

I'm pretty sure you can't gear Monk in AF1 and it's Relic weapon without being on that job. So yes, there is already precedence in-game where you need to do content on the job you want to gear.

Yes, there exists class specific quest lines for class specific gear and skills. And i happen to like those quests, as they teach me something about my class. The Relic line is the same, in a sense. By making me run the content on that specific class, i am proving i have the skills required to play it.

But why should i be forced to prove that i can play my Monk in AK/WP when I'm farming Garuda HM and learning Titan HM?

Even if i had a full ilvl 90 kit waiting for my Scholar when it hits 50, I'll still need to get through the various requirements of my Relic quest on that class. The gear i use to do it is irrelevant. The class requisite is to prove you know how to play that class and deserve the Relic, Gear has nothing to do with it.

The time drawbacks for the majority of players to have job specific caps is astronomical compared to the drawbacks of the current system. I have friends who like to play multiple classes, but often don't have the time to play more than a few hours on the weekend. So under your system, they'd never be able to cap tomes on 2 Jobs, because they don't have the 10 hours a day to cap it both, and imagine if they liked one job of each Role? suddenly, it becomes incredibly difficult to get the things you need due to lack of time in the day to get it done.

As my main class is a Monk, the wait times for dungeons make Tome farming very slow to do on my own. When I'm with friends, its instant queue no matter what class i play.
When I'm alone, i Tank it, and still get the Tomes i need to get gear for the jobs that cant get into dungeons as fast. Under your plan, i'd be forced to wait in the DD queue when i *could* be tanking it for 3 people who only have the 1 non Tank job at 50, and still gearing up the Job that needs the Tomes while picking up off drops no one else needs.

[Grailer]

300 a week cap pretty much seals the deal .

Will take a long long time to get full tier2 armor .

But to get it for 2 jobs .. good luck with that

[KiriA500]

Actually you can. You make alt characters instead of leveling jobs on a single character.

Besides, no one is asking to max gear in a week. We're asking for the limits to be adjusted so we can put more effort into gearing our characters than possible. More effort = more rewards.

Question for you, what's your opinion on 1.0s fatigue system?

It was atrocious and one of the worst ideas to ever come to fruition.

inb4 you make asinine comparisons between leveling up and earning the best gear in the game.

[Shiyo]

Myth cap and coil lock out is literally the fatigue system from 1.0. Why did fatigue exist? To let players who played less catch up to the players who played 24/7, so they made it so if you played sooo much more you gained exp a lot slower, so someone who played less wasn't super far behind. Why does myth tome cap and coil lock outs exist? So that players who don't play a lot can keep up gear-wise with people who play all day and play a lot. It exists to keep casual and hardcore players within equal footing. It's exactly what the fatigue system was.

Please fix the armory system and coil lock outs SE, you are doing nothing but holding your fantastic game back and limiting everyone to playing for less than 3 days per week, forcing us to pay $2 more per month if we want to do coil/gear up multiple jobs, and forcing us to make new characters and ignore your armory system in order to do so. There is no reason for this limitation, it hurts EVERYONE, even casual players are running out of things to do, and I highly doubt the majority of people enjoy spending $13-15/month to be told how often and how much we can play the game per week.

Except it isn't. Fatigue in 1.0 hurt you as you progressed. In this game, you are only locked out from the best gear that is currently available at the end of the game.

These restrictions will also be eased up as future patches are released. It's here now because this all of our endgame as of patch 2.0.

Wrong, I'm locked out of playing the game(1 hour of coil on a single job every 7 days yay!) and gearing more than 1 job unless I make multiple characters which lets me bypass this entire artificial barrier.

I would prefer to the fatigue system to this, I leveled right through it and ignored it on every single job and didn't even notice it existed, fatigue was SO much better than coil lock outs and myth tome caps.

The fatigue system may have slowed me down, but it didn't straight up stop me from experiencing or playing the game like the coil lock out system does. It also encouraged me to level up multiple jobs and try out every job, where the myth the tome system does the complete opposite, and unlike the fatigue system that simply slowed down my progress, this myth tome system completely halts my progress until the "fatigue(weekly cap) is reset.

It's the fatigue system, greatly amplified.

So please, tell me which is worse. Being completely locked out of the game and unable to play/experience it(coil), as well as having your character progress COMPLETELY halted, or the fatigue system which simply slowed you down but didn't lock you out of any content and still allowed you to progress.