Class Homogenization.... Why do you want it?

[ChaozK]

I really dont think you have played DRG much tbh, you are comparing apples to oranges. The basic TT combo is only 20% of what a DRG is doing at endgame, the other 80% are keeping up your DOTs and Buffs and keeping your oGCDs on CD. You say MNK has 3 DOTs to manage, so has DRG: Phlebotomize, Fracture and Chaos Thrust. Thats like saying a SMN is easy to play because he only spams ruin once all DOTs are applied. A DRG cant keep up his buffs if the mob is moving, neither all of his DOTs but can execute his basic combo, a MNK cant get max potency on moving mobs but can place all of his DOTs and Buffs because there is no positional requirement on those.

It boils down to both doing the same, only differently. I do think that MNK is a bit harder but thats only because an additional amount of buffs is harder to manage than an additional amount of off GCD skills.

[Ryutamashiisan]

all you can incorporate drgs DoT's into your rotation witho little to no risk of loosing any buffs whatso ever, yoU MIGHT loose heavy thrust if your slow. The chance of loosing GLIII is high, you maybe have a 2 second window to get them up before you can get tier III up if your fast. Yes my point being you can execute your most basic and power combo REGARDLESS of all of other factors with NO RISK of loosing a good chunk of DPS, MNK is NEVER in that position, unless the mob is standing still, also only 2 of DRG's move require position for chaining, you have to move for heavy thrust and impule drive. If you use impulse drive and the mob turns afterward, you do not have to change your rotation whatsoever, your fine. However if a mob turns mid combo for mnk, monk has to change with it.

[Ryutamashiisan]

Example. Monk uses Dragon kick from side, titan turns to landslide, mnk is now behind it mnk can eaither A) run to the side the dark to use twin snakes or use true strike instead. This is done on the fly after a lighting quick assessment o fthe situation with your buff and what will do the most dps. The same thing happens to drg with ANY of its skills but HT and ID, it doesn't change a thing, NO adjustments needed. Also if a mob moves drg will get buff/de-buff sup much faster then MNK because it doesn't need to build them.

[ChaozK]

Well its not as black and white like that. First of all, not applying buffs or DOTs is a mayor dps loss for DRG, no question about that, if you only spam 1-2-3 you are not playing the job. TTT is very good to burn down adds but other than that you should always focus on putting up everything else first. Secondly the ramp up part of DRG is huge and comes close to a MNK going to GL2. A DRG starts out with HT-PH-FR-ID-DE-CT for 1 buff/1 debuff and 3 DoTs, thats roughly similar to a MNK doing ToD-FR-BS-TS-DM-DK for 1 buff/1 debuff and 3 Dots. Sure you are not at GL3 by then but you have placed all your important stuff in exactly the same time and GL3 will then come by itself at which point you will easily outdamage the DRG.

In terms of positioning you are ignoring a very essential factor, DRGs have only 2 skills with positional requirements while MNKs have 5, however a MNK does not get punished hard for missing a position, at worst you lose 40 potency but the thing is your combo still continues and your DOT/Buff/Debuff is still getting placed. With DRG its far more punishing, not only do you get lower potency but your Buff is also NOT getting placed and your combo does NOT continue, so you need to start over again, completely messing up your rotation.

[peaches]

Well, there will always be some specific jobs groups will require in them (such as Caster Dps for Ifrit for Nails).

While I thought the same, after using the DF for Ifrit and getting three groups in a row with no casters, we only had one group disband right away. We successfully beat Ifrit the other two times, first try. All it took was a little talking beforehand, planning out how we were going to do it. Turns out we had a melee Limit one of them and kill it, whack two more, then use the 2 bar Limit on the last one. It was close, but we got it both times.

[Meklore]

remember lolDRG anyone?

With too much specialization there will be exclusion to certain content by players who only want to use the optimum setup for the fastest exp.
That was a lesson learned from XI.

[wrightstuf]

I think all is fine as long as your milk is homogenized

[Allyrion]

Secondly the ramp up part of DRG is huge and comes close to a MNK going to GL2. A DRG starts out with HT-PH-FR-ID-DE-CT for 1 buff/1 debuff and 3 DoTs, thats roughly similar to a MNK doing ToD-FR-BS-TS-DM-DK for 1 buff/1 debuff and 3 Dots. Sure you are not at GL3 by then but you have placed all your important stuff in exactly the same time and GL3 will then come by itself at which point you will easily outdamage the DRG.

Not to nitpick, but that's not a good comparison. Monks should not use Fracture or ToD before GL3. Demolish works because it moves the stance, and getting to GL3 is the top priority. Therefore monk ramp up must include 3 cycles and then the 3 dots (roughly 22s). At which point you are outdamaging the DRG, so you're right on that point but you can't condense it like in your example.

Otherwise, I agree with you. From what I know, DRGs are a close second in difficulty. SMN is medium skill at best, I don't think they're above DRGs but they are above BRDs and BLMs.

[Billzey]

Nerfing isnt about homognizing jobs, its about Balance. For example with the bard nerf, Bard DPS aint special, BUT BRD has 100% mobiltily to go with there DPS when most endgame fights require an exceptional amount of moving.

The way i see it the roles for each job are well defined
PLD: Passive Damage Mitigation Tank based on direct damage -
WAR: Reactive Mitigation tank based on HP/ DMG output
WHM: Burst/AoE heal specalist
SCH: Single target heal special/ Support
DRG: Low Skill Medium to High Damage Melee
MNK: High Skill Extremely High Damage Melee
BRD: Low to Medium DMG Ranged/Support Class
BLM: Low Skill/ Medium to High Damage Ranged
SMN: High Skill Extremely High damage Ranged.

Nerfs and players, wont change that.SE shouldn't be making fights that so heavy-handedly give weight to Job vs Player Skill. When they do however, they have to fix it, pure and simple.

BRD DPS is just as good if not better than melee DPS. I'm not sure why you would say low-medium lol... They're certainly better than BLM, and yet you say medium to high for BLM. BLM is useful for AoEing mobs, but for single target, I've yet to see anyone out-parse a BRD (going all-out of course). And that's not even taking into account DoTs.

Also, are you saying SMN ranged damage is higher than BRD? They're competitive, I'll give you that, but you make it sound, from your list, as if SMN somehow destroys BRD, in which case they should be nerfed. Clearly that's not true.

[ChaozK]

Not to nitpick, but that's not a good comparison. Monks should not use Fracture or ToD before GL3. Demolish works because it moves the stance, and getting to GL3 is the top priority. Therefore monk ramp up must include 3 cycles and then the 3 dots (roughly 22s). At which point you are outdamaging the DRG, so you're right on that point but you can't condense it like in your example.

Otherwise, I agree with you. From what I know, DRGs are a close second in difficulty. SMN is medium skill at best, I don't think they're above DRGs but they are above BRDs and BLMs.

I agree with you there, i just chose this specific rotation for comparisons sake. Although i do like to start with ToD/PH sometimes, while the tank is still busy with positioning.