[dev1058] Say no to the hate meter.

[Ceons]

Too much change coming alongside this to have a clear picture to speculate now.MAYBE it sucks MAYBE its awesome. I say wait. See it, before you judge it.

[MeowyWowie]

Chances are no matter how much we argue about it, this is still getting implemented whether we like it or not. I would suggest SE to wait until the public test server is operational and let us test it there first.

I understand both sides of the argument but I'm still highly against this. I prefer to learn through my actions, not by being told when to back off. People make mistakes for a reason, to learn from them. With this implemented there is no margin for error and hate management suddenly becomes stale. Out of all the hidden variables in this game, this should have been the last thing to consider making visible.

As someone suggested, in another thread I think, I would much prefer a color coded system instead of seeing raw percentages. At least with that there is still some level uncertainty. And to me, uncertainty plays a big part in a fun and challenging battle system.

[Arcell]

There is still margin for error, mostly if you're unskilled and don't know how to play your job properly. I guarantee you even with the hate meter in place people who don't care or don't pay attention will still screw up. At that point however there is nowhere else to place the blame, it lies solely on the player.

[Chezen]

@Preypacer

Whatever you might have thought about my examples, you got the purpose of them. Yes it's a game, but hate meters have to do with the life or death of the party. There has probably been thousands of skills, far better examples than the ones off the top of my head I'm sure, that has been lost over time due to modern technology. If you are going to call it a crutch, you will have to call those advances crutches as well. In the meantime, someone who might have otherwise been very good at a job except needing that one tool, might be less successful at his job, and be overlooked due to poor performance.

There is more to each job than just watching aggro. A good tank keeps an eye on the entire party’s needs, making sure everyone is ready before beginning the fight. A good healer watches the party’s back, and compensates for the party until they can respond to whatever threat came from left field. A good dps knows to help keep aggro off the healer. These are things no tools will compensate for.

As for telling someone how to play, that comes from both sides. I’m sorry you were refused by so many, but that just suggests that the majority like and want addons. I personally never used any, other than a dmg meter to measure my performance, and whatever was built in the game. But by saying no one should use a meter, you are effectively telling people they should play like you. That is why the toggles have been made available. Anyone who wants to be that skilled, or have the mystery in the fight, can if they choose.

[MeowyWowie]

I agree Arcell. There will definitely be players who either don't care or don't pay attention. But that's more of a matter of ignorance, not player skill. But for players who want to do their best this tool simply tells them "don't worry, just listen to me and you'll be fine." It almost completely takes human intelligence out of the equation. The only thing you now have to focus on, in terms of hate management, is not hitting 100% enmity. For me, that's boring. The more predictable a battle becomes the less interesting it is.

[Arcell]

You're still going to play pretty much exactly how you were before, you'll just know the state of your aggro now. If you know how to manage it without the meter you'll be doing pretty much the same thing with the meter.

Also having the meter allows you to push the limits of what you can do without having to worry about pulling hate. If you know you've got a decent amount of leeway with the hate you can go crazy and try things you may not have been willing to do so before without knowing.

All this does is take the guess work and speculation out. The mechanics work the exact same way with or without the meter.

[Chezen]

You're still going to play pretty much exactly how you were before, you'll just know the state of your aggro now. If you know how to manage it without the meter you'll be doing pretty much the same thing with the meter.

Also having the meter allows you to push the limits of what you can do without having to worry about pulling hate. If you know you've got a decent amount of leeway with the hate you can go crazy and try things you may not have been willing to do so before without knowing.

All this does is take the guess work and speculation out. The mechanics work the exact same way with or without the meter.

I didn't think about it that way Arcell, but I think you're right.

[MeowyWowie]

You're still going to play pretty much exactly how you were before, you'll just know the state of your aggro now. If you know how to manage it without the meter you'll be doing pretty much the same thing with the meter.

Also having the meter allows you to push the limits of what you can do without having to worry about pulling hate. If you know you've got a decent amount of leeway with the hate you can go crazy and try things you may not have been willing to do so before without knowing.

All this does is take the guess work and speculation out. The mechanics work the exact same way with or without the meter.

This is basically the same exact thing I said but presented in a positive way.

Let's just agree to disagree lol.

[Morticous]

I understand the point the naysayers are making, and personally, I'm right there with you on it. Being good at what I do certainly appeals to me. But the hate meter is still a tool, not a crutch. Would you look down on a logger for using a chainsaw instead of on ax? Do you want a doctor to cut out a "tumor" that he just "felt" rather than x-rayed? Technology that helps people be better at their jobs isn't necessarily a bad thing. (Technology that literally does someone's job altogether is another story, like auto-pilot :/ )

FYI, A logger uses a chainsaw because they are there to make money, not have fun and challenge themselves.... and a doctor is saving lives.... not making a game out of your tumor.... Playing FFXIV is an extra activity, not a job, thats why everybody against these "Tools" are against these "tools". Go chop out tumors with a chainsaw somewhere else (Yeah, I mixed your analogies!)

Like it has been said before, once everyone becomes dependent on these game ruining crutches, anyone who doesn't use them will be frowned upon creating problems ingame. People are going to wonder why you didn't voke at the OPTIMAL time according to this hate meter and then stop playing with you when they find out you don't use it. Stop fooling yoursleves.

[Mrfox0707]

I would also have to say yes to the hate meeter. As someone who will be playing the healer it would be a great help.