[dev1058] Say no to the hate meter.

[Burn]

lol masochism at its finest, this will only help people. People are so enthralled with outdated mechanic's in an MMO.

[Abriael]

lol masochism at its finest, this will only help people. People are so enthralled with outdated mechanic's in an MMO.

I didn't know that requiring any kind of skills in a MMORPG was "outdated".

Oh wait, it isn't.

having the hate meter is sort of like displaying the rank of the mob, or telling us if a mob is going to aggro or not. I'm not sure at what point these things were asked for or what the rationale is.

Nope. The level of the mob simply shows you information that you can easily get elsewhere, and that don't really help you beating the monster more easily.

An hate meter is effectively a crutch that oversimplifies a combat mechanic and turns it into a simple matter of reading the instructions and executing.

[Tsuga]

I didn't know that requiring any kind of skills in a MMORPG was "outdated".

Oh wait, it isn't.

Nope. The level of the mob simply shows you information that you can easily get elsewhere, and that don't really help you beating the monster more easily.

An hate meter is effectively a crutch that oversimplifies a combat mechanic and turns it into a simple matter of reading the instructions and executing.

So tanks spamming voke when they could be doing something more useful = skill? Could've fooled me.

This will lead to more strategic planning of skill/spell usage by everyone in the party, and that's just using the current battle system.

[Brahms]

I agree that the hate meter is an unnecessary addition to the game.

[Preypacer]

So tanks spamming voke when they could be doing something more useful = skill? Could've fooled me.

This will lead to more strategic planning of skill/spell usage by everyone in the party, and that's just using the current battle system.

Here's what I don't get.... People are talking about how a hate meter "allows party to strategize"... as though they couldn't without it.

In FFXI - even well before Windower was introduced with its add-on hate meter... people strategized and learned how far they could push it with the DD and when they had to pull back. Healers learned to balance HoTs with direct heals in order to keep the HP from falling without taking aggro.

Players with that kind of experience often provided tips to others who also benefitted from them and passed them on to other players.

It was all learned organically and it was always a blast when that knowledge was brought to bear, such as in a longer-than-usual and difficult encounter where that kind of knowledge really made the difference between a party wiping or succeeding.

Some of the most epic and memorable encounters I've had that were near wipes were won because the players brought their skills and knowledge of aggro and aggro management to bear, and coordinated effectively to turn things around. We didn't have a meter telling us how ticked off the mob was at a given person. We'd developed an intuition for it over having fought a given enemy a number times and learning their behavior, etc.

We communicated, we adapted and we overcame. No meters necessary.

Adding a hate meter completely removes the dynamic of that. It removes the balancing act because the player no longer has to feel out how things are flowing, because it's spelled out for them right on the screen. All they need to do is follow the rising or falling hate % and respond accordingly. -snore-

It's just one more thing that removes the player from the game by doing it for them.

So... again, I can understand people preferring a hate meter because they don't want to have to pay that much attention.. but to argue that it "introduces strategy to it" as though it doesn't without one just rings very hollow to me.

In most cases when I've seen people pushing for the use of hate meters is because it provided one more safe-guard against a group wipe and helped ensure a victory; just like "having the optimal build", "following the best guides", "having the optimal party/raid setup", etc.

All those things are used to eliminate strategy and challenge from the game and replace it with predictability and color-by-the-numbers routines. To me, that makes the game less interesting... not more.


I happen to agree with the OP. If SE's goal is to make combat more challenging and require more skill, then I would definitely promote players learning and honing a skill such as tracking or maintaining aggro-management... without a meter telling them where things stand.

In my opinion, MMOs have gone way too far in providing "helpers" and "add-ons" and such that are designed solely to remove the need for players to learn and master certain gameplay elements themselves. They're a crutch, just like the OP stated. As a result, I also believe players - generally speaking - have become far too dependent on them.