Turn 5 Twister Strategies Compendium

[SonyaArin]

As promised in the Binding Coil of Bahamut Discussion thread, after extensive talk on both reddit and across other sources, I'm creating this area to talk Twister strategy and provide clearer examples to the community as to the current issue raiding guilds are experiencing on Turn 5. Prior, I provided a clip that showed one vantage point, and the point of this thread will be to gather vantage points from the community overall and compile them into a working strategy, OR, to stress why a lot of the raiding community STILL believes Twister to be suffering terribly from the positional update issue in this game (which I will later link to a thread which SE has acknowledged).

What is this about?
This discussion is about the Turn 5 Binding Coil of Bahamut boss, Twintania, and primarly her ability starting at 50%, Twister.

What is the ability?
Here is the mechanic as it is understood thus far, until any provides evidence otherwise.

• Once under 50%, Twintania will channel an ability called 'Twister' every ~1 minute
• This ability will always select four people (believed at random) per cast, including the main tank.
• When the channel ends, a small green tornado will be placed for each person chosen.
• If you are standing on the green tornado, you will trigger it and die instantly (no damage, cannot be immuned). These will stay on the ground for a few seconds and can be triggered after if you run back into them.
• When triggered, this explosion will also create a larger tornado around the point of impact which can hit allies, dealing damage and possibly knocking them into the wall (the wall is insta-gib).
• Example showing the avoided tornado here.
• Example showing the exploded tornado here.

What is the strategy?
Currently, the strategy is to simply fan out and run during the cast, as though you are simply 'running out of the AoE'. The tornado will land behind you somewhere in the path of your run and will not explode.

What is the issue?
The issue is that the above strategy is highly inconsistent. It is believed that the tornado is supposed to be where you were when she starts casting, and so long as you move, you are safe. The purpose of this thread is to narrow down the reason for that inconsistency to a near 0% chance of questioning, with clear video proof. There are two main venues to investigate:

• The game suffers positional update issues, and poorly timed updates will cause the tornado to spawn under your feet at the end and explode you.
• There is something misunderstood about the mechanic that is the cause for the inconsistency.

How will we pursue the items above?
I will create a listing of possible strategies (ex: Jump at the end of the cast, stack on the boss, use Wind Resistance potions). I will then accept videos of strategies on the list which show clearly that it works or does not work. Some strategies will have both. Having an excess of videos that show inconsistency will give more credibility to the potential update issue.

How can I contribute?
Following the main post will be a few examples, and a couple of starting videos. I'm banking on you all in the community to come forward with your own videos - keep them short and to the point, this is a Twister discussion, and I'm not asking you to discuss anything else. Those not on Turn 5 are also welcome to toss out ideas. If you do, however, please try to watch the videos available first to get a better perspective. Give the strategy a title and a clear description. I will do my best to keep both the video area and strategy area up-to-date a few times a day. I am also happy to link multiple examples of the same strategy should they be posted.

I have an idea, but want to speak anonymously
You are welcome to talk to me in-game on either Sonya Arinborn or Sonya Cattingborn on Gilgamesh. Alternatively, send me a PM on Reddit (see the thread for my acct in the links section, SonyaArin). I will posted your ideas or videos without names (as much as videos will allow).

You realize Turn 5 is off right now? You realize SE said it is not bugged, right?
I realize the encounter is offline as of the time of this post. However, being in one such group, I know that plenty of group have literal hours of footage on this encounter trying to figure it out, and I also want the posting area up for when the encounter DOES come back online.

I also realize SE has given as statement saying that Twister is not bugged. I am willing to believe them, however, the statement 'Twister is not bugged' does not solve the possibility that the overall game's positional issues are the cause of the problem, and that issue has been shown with EXTENSIVE video proof here.

Overall - please try to keep this thread on topic so that we can all come to a solid conclusion together.

[SonyaArin]

Strategies Listing

BE WARNED: The majority of these, our raid and many others have tried. However, as a sanity check, the entire purpose of this thread is to have absolute video proof to show this, so I will be listing things even in cases my bias says 'no' and will be leaving them inconclusive until EVERYONE has proof to see.

Strategy: Run
Status: Mixed Results
Criteria: When Twintania casts Twister, begin running and continue until completion of the spell. Afterwards, do not walk backwards into your tornado if you spawned on.
Successful Examples: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZTO3MQ2CNc
Unsuccessful Examples: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHo3AewOwog
Notes: These are the two basic examples of showing the mechanic kill everyone, and then kill not-everyone. In the successful video, 3 of the 4 avoid it, and the one who gets hit is the MT, showing that it can target the tank. Both of these videos are from the same raid, where positions for fanning out are very similar (and intended to be us repeating the same strategy). For example, Black Mage running to the same spot both times, dying once, not dying the other. This basic example should help clarify why most do not believe the explosions are position/class/anything based, and simply four people at random who are just supposed to move out of it.

Strategy: Sprint before cast
Status: Inconclusive
Criteria: Sprint before Twister casts and during the entire cast
Successful Examples: None so far
Unsuccessful Examples: None so far
Notes: One of the first things tried while we used to just 'run' but doesn't seem to impact the issue much. Don't have any video presently so leaving 'unproven' as per the standard.

Strategy: Jump out
Status: Inconclusive
Criteria: Jump away from the spot you're standing on at the end of the cast.
Successful Examples: None so far
Unsuccessful Examples: None so far
Notes: You will see this note a lot, but, skeptical that this is the 'trick' because the 'Run' successful example shows running with no jumping working.

Strategy: Stand Still
Status: Inconclusive
Criteria: Stand still before the start of the Twister cast, and do not move during the entirety of the cast
Successful Examples: None so far
Unsuccessful Examples: None so far
Notes: I'll mark this as one we've tried, but again, feel free not to take my word on it and provide a video for us.

Strategy: Spin in a circle
Status: Inconclusive
Criteria: Spin around in place until Twister is completed (with it? Opposite it?)
Successful Examples: None so far
Unsuccessful Examples: None so far
Notes: For all my beliefs otherwise.... man would I love for this to be it.

Strategy: Don't cast
Status: Inconclusive
Criteria: Take no action during the cast of Twister
Successful Examples: None so far
Unsuccessful Examples: None so far
Notes: We also tried this during our 'Stand still' attempts, but, same as above - feel free to provide proof for the community.

Strategy: Stack Together
Status: Inconclusive
Criteria: Have the entire raid stack on each other
Successful Examples: None so far
Unsuccessful Examples: None so far
Notes: Might be willing to combine videos for this, stacking on the boss, all being behind the boss, etc.

Strategy: Stack on Twintania
Status: Inconclusive
Criteria: Have the entire raid stack on the boss for the Twister cast
Successful Examples: None so far
Unsuccessful Examples: None so far
Notes:

Strategy: Move behind Twintania
Status: Inconclusive
Criteria: Has the entire raid stack behind the boss for the Twister cast
Successful Examples: None so far
Unsuccessful Examples: None so far
Notes: Would be willing to accept a video of 'on the boss's rear' for both this and the 'Stack on Twintania' strategy.

Strategy: Move infront of Twintania
Status: Inconclusive
Criteria: Have the entire raid stack infront of the boss for the Twister cast
Successful Examples: None so far
Unsuccessful Examples: None so far
Notes: Would be willing to accept a video of 'on the boss's mouth' for both this and the 'Stack on Twintania' strategy. Also, see the 'Run' strategy successful video, which shows the MT alone being infront of the boss and dying from Twister. Will call this Unsuccessful when I have a video of the entire raid there with them.

Strategy: Garuda's Feather
Status: Unsuccessful (see note)
Criteria: Have Garuda's Feather in your inventory to protect you.
Successful Examples: None so far
Unsuccessful Examples: None so far
Notes: In the 'Run' unsuccessful video above, I have Garuda's Feather in my inventory and died while running still. Since this is not video proof unless I show the feather first, I won't ask that you take my word for it.

Strategy: Wind Resistance
Status: Inconslusive
Criteria: Have 300 Wind Resistance when struck by Twister
Successful Examples: None so far
Unsuccessful Examples: None so far
Notes: This can be attempted mostly be just using a potion, but that's only a solution for testing purposes. Twister will come off CD far far more often than your potion will.

Strategy: The Living Scourge
Status: Inconclusive
Criteria: Keep at least one Scourage alive into later phases of the fight, with the possibility that it might interact with Twintania is some way (eat conflags/twisters/etc)
Successful Examples: None so far
Unsuccessful Examples: None so far
Notes: None

Strategy: The Sky is the Limit
Status: Inconclusive
Criteria: Change into first person view and look up at the sky
Successful Examples: None so far
Unsuccessful Examples: None so far
Notes: None

Don't Poo in Your Own Nest (Twintania)
Criteria: Kite each additional enemy into a Neurolink as they spawn (or once the second one spawns). This may immobilize the additional enemy, consume the Neurolink, transform the Neurolink, or give some sort of buff or debuff. Alternatively, each Neurolink or additional enemy may represent a Twister.
Examples: None so far
Author: Matthew Stars of Tonberry.

(To be continued, but I can only type so much without wanting to go grind Wanderer's Palace!)

[SonyaArin]

Relevant links of discussion

The original Reddit thread

The SE post claiming Twister is not bugged

The original 'Twister is an Accepted Bug' thread

The thread showing server unresponsiveness to updates (see the videos in the main post)

Binding Coil of Bahamut Discussion thread

[SonyaArin]

Notes and FAQs

<The Best Ever> Free Company is at 15% on this fight, Twister is beatable
This doesn't really help the discussion. The issue with Twister is that we as raiders can do what we believe is the same strategy for it four times in a row. Three times it will work flawlessly, and the fourth time it will fail, and we wipe. I can absolutely believe guilds have gotten her much lower than an immediate first-twister explosion, but that doesn't make that phase itself any less consistent. If a free company kills her by using a simple 'run' strategy and they get lucky running and kill the rest of the fight, all the power to them. Also - I wouldn't recommend believing everything you hear either. Screen caps of low % Twintania HP bar also have the possibility of being her HP bar on a bugged attempt, where in the boss does nothing at all because the company has purposefully put her into the bugged state. The bug I am referring to is the reason why Turn 5 has been taken down twice now. Until a strategy is revealed that is consistent, I don't really care about the above.

I'm in <The Best Ever> Free Company and we're at 15%
I may even believe you, but I still don't care. Unless you want to provide a screen shot of the status of the fight itself (say, of Twintania actively doing something other than auto attacking) with her HP that low, I'll very likely believe you. But I still won't care. What can make me care is you wanting to take part in the discussion with 'yes, we got her this low using the running strategy' or 'I got her this low, but we're not using the running strategy, you've got the mechanic pinned wrong'. I understand plenty of guilds are in progression mode and not sharing any information, and I'm perfectly fine with that. But if all you have to say is how far you are without contributing, keep it in the Binding Coil thread where we don't have to read it.

Have you tried X, Y, or Z?
Maybe, maybe not. Give the strategy a title and give it a clear definition of 'how to try this'. Should everyone be doing it? Should only one person do it? Etc. Be detailed, I can always crop it down myself if I feel the need, and I will post it in the strategies section for people to try.

Have you ever heard of Absolute Virtue?
Yes, I have. I don't care how obscure FFXI encounters were, or how impossible they seemed, or how difficult they actually were. Absolute Virtue is an example of something that was difficult, and you have to know exactly what to do. Twintania is (possibly, we're trying to prove in this thread afterall!) an example of something seemingly very simple, but that is artificially and perhaps unintentionally inflated by the way the game's net code works. I don't mean to brush aside your comparisons, but it's irrelevant. Feel free to share your discussion in someplace more appropriate such as the Binding Coil thread.

What if the secret is in Turn 3? What if you have to kill the Quarantine Node? What if you have to have full Allagan/AF+1 gear?
To remain entirely unbiased, people can post these as strategies and videos as they desire, and I'll accept them. However, this somewhat relates to the notes above and my own perception of this game. This game is a modern MMO. The boss fight mechanics have been extremely clear in general, and it feels like it makes sense. I don't personally think there's any super-secret about this fight for two reasons. One, this game is a modern MMO and doesn't give that vibe at all about any mysteries. Whether or not SE has a history of such things in FFXI feels irrelevant to me, because this isn't FFXI. If FFXIV followed in those footsteps, it would have a better pattern of doing so than 'just the last boss'. Second, I don't feel these are the strategies because treating it as a normal, standard boss mechanic just SUCCEEDS, sometimes. If the trick was something in Turn 3 that made you immune to Twister, why would you be able to avoid Twister whatsoever at all? Why wouldn't it just kill you - or better you, all eight of you, every single time? Even an obscure mechanic would make more sense IF the mechanic actually felt like a 100% blocker without question. But it doesn't. It just feels inconsistent.

[Syncness]

I just find it so damn weird that Twister doesn't deal damage, and just one shots you.

It's as if they're hinting to something.

I think the turn3 mobs thing is a bit of a stretch because we're not given an option to revisit it.

I speculate an item needs to be worn, sort of like Onyxia Scale Cloak, but I've got no idea what... (ironically, Onyxia fight and this fight has similarities lol)

[e] Perhaps an item that drops in Crystal Tower, and is used for a recipe for said item. Which is exactly like Onyxia Scale Cloak and Nefarian in BWL.

[Kasue]

I speculate an item needs to be worn, sort of like Onyxia Scale Cloak, but I've got no idea what... (ironically, Onyxia fight and this fight has similarities lol)

Well there's crafted gear with slots .. What if we put wind materia's in them? Like reach over 300 in wind resist and we could maybe survive it somehow? It seems abit odd the game have resist materias when theres no real usage for them. just saying.

[Luda]

How long is the cast time on Twister, as fast as WoL (Titan) or faster? If it's roughly the same, i dare say it's not a server update problem (it is a problem in general though) But most people can avoid that consistently these days. (I've never done Turn5, as you can tell. just curious)

Would be nice if a few of these leading FC's would record a few fights fully and from different views/strats, and let the community look and try to figure something out. But i guess with everyone so hellbent on getting worlds 1st (i don't get the buzz about this lol) it may not happen.

- I also refuse to believe we need something from Crystal tower to beat turn 5. That would be a terrible decision from SE. (the gear may help, but it shouldn't be a deciding factor)

[SonyaArin]

-snip-

The cast time is shown on the video I linked, but for sake of ease, here it is. I don't agree with the statement though. People have learned that a lot of AoEs in this game are very tight, and have IMPROVED their consistency, but that doesn't mean there isn't still a noticeable % of the time that players just roll their eyes at the game when they are out of an AoE and the game just doesn't register it. There is simple proof of this concept shown in one of the threads I linked above, but again for sake of ease, here it is complete with videos.

To address your second comment, that's the entire point of this thread - any FCs that wish to contribute video snippets of different twister strats are being asked to do so. I don't feel the rest of the fight is necessary, there's nothing that screams relation to changing how Twister works.

[Syncness]

Well there's crafted gear with slots .. What if we put wind materia's in them? Like reach over 300 in wind resist and we could maybe survive it somehow? It seems abit odd the game have resist materias when theres no real usage for them. just saying.

Well, let's split this into 3 parts.

1. At the moment, no ilvl 90 gear has materia slots, in future maybe crafted stuff will.

2. Even if we wore all crafted with 5 wind materia, at best it makes us "resist" (100% avoid) twisters which I'm not sure if that's how resists work. Lets say it did, it would be stupid to have such a mechanic entirely weigh on RNG.

3. There is no damage on twisters, just death, so with damage reduction from resists, you'd still die.

[Luda]

I've seen all them, and i know we have problems with server lag and it needs to be sorted out. but we can overcome them by knowing when they will be cast(Until it's fixed.. if it ever is). that's all im asking. I know probably most of everyone doing it will also have some kind of sound alert when it's being cast. I'm just being curious on it all.

it does seem to be roughly the same speed as WoL though. Can people consistently avoid twister if they are just running constantly. I.e already on the move before it's even started to cast? or is it still 50/50 death? I know this isn't a solution, as you shouldn't have to just be running laps to avoid certain moves.