[Dev1058] Hate Meter / Pros / Cons / Open Discussion

[Ayerc]

My gut reaction was to dislike the enmity gauge, mainly while under the impression that it was basically an easy mode. After reading some of the comments in the thread, I can say that didn't hold water. But I'm still against the meter.

Adding a hate meter has an incredible impact on the fundamentals of battle. When it's there, we will be constantly looking at it, to make sure we're riding the edge. Some argue that this is fun and challenging, and while I don't disagree with that, I'm concerned that it will become such an overwhelming factor, that battles become...too systematic, too much of a number cruncher and not more of an exciting thing to do.

Part of the fun in a battle is having some unpredictability. If a boss suddenly goes for the mage line, and wipes half of them out, your battle tactics need to change while you get back on your feet. Riding the edge of a full wipe is much more exciting than riding the edge of whether or not someone takes hate. Of course, there's a chance that this could still happen with the gauge in place, but it'll be a whole lot more unlikely if we can see the numbers.

Having the gauge will let us in on the inner workings of any encounter. What weapon types do more damage, what a particular boss is watchful of (i.e. do cures generate more hate on one boss over another), etc. etc. It could be possible to formulate the most effective boss strategy in the first encounter. Where's the challenge in that?

Essentially, adding in the hate gauge will remove a lot the mystique of battles, and a lot of the fun and excitement that goes with it.


And I don't agree with the 3rd party tool argument either. If you can't beat them, join them? That's never been a good reason to do anything...ever. It's just giving up.

[Arcell]

Part of the fun in a battle is having some unpredictability. If a boss suddenly goes for the mage line, and wipes half of them out, your battle tactics need to change while you get back on your feet. Riding the edge of a full wipe is much more exciting than riding the edge of whether or not someone takes hate. Of course, there's a chance that this could still happen with the gauge in place, but it'll be a whole lot more unlikely if we can see the numbers.

Honestly with or without the hate meter this shouldn't happen. If it does your mages aren't managing their hate properly and that means they aren't very skilled. Honestly if they are that unaware of the hate they're pulling this would probably still happen with the meter in place. If someone doesn't know how to manage hate on their class or if they don't care if they do it, showing them a number isn't going to help much.

[Ayerc]

Honestly with or without the hate meter this shouldn't happen. If it does your mages aren't managing their hate properly and that means they aren't very skilled. Honestly if they are that unaware of the hate they're pulling this would probably still happen with the meter in place. If someone doesn't know how to manage hate on their class or if they don't care if they do it, showing them a number isn't going to help much.

Not necessarily. Mobs will sometimes have hate reset moves, like Ultima Weapon in XI, and Cactuar Jack here. Of course, the gauge will clearly show that, and we'll know exactly why it happened almost immediately. We won't learn it, because we won't have the chance to. That's my biggest problem with hate meters, it leaves nothing to solve.

[Arcell]

Not necessarily. Mobs will sometimes have hate reset moves, like Ultima Weapon in XI, and Cactuar Jack here. Of course, the gauge will clearly show that, and we'll know exactly why it happened almost immediately. We won't learn it, because we won't have the chance to. That's my biggest problem with hate meters, it leaves nothing to solve.

It doesn't change the fact that you still have to learn how to properly adapt to it. It's pretty apparent when it happens even without the meter. If you don't know how to adapt to it you're going to fail, meter or not.

[Ayerc]

It doesn't change the fact that you still have to learn how to properly adapt to it. It's pretty apparent when it happens even without the meter. If you don't know how to adapt to it you're going to fail, meter or not.

I agree with you here, adaptation is part of the fun too, though it's not all of it.

I enjoy strategizing. I enjoy it even more when it's done through multiple encounters with the same boss. Not just to find how to kill something, but to find out how to kill as efficiently as possible, and with a few people as possible. I like the process of figuring out a boss or mob type more than the end result. The solution to a puzzle is boring and once seen becomes obvious. It's figuring out the steps that get you to the solution that's interesting and fun. This gauge removes a lot of the puzzle in figuring that out, and there's the problem as I see it.