[Dev1058] Hate Meter / Pros / Cons / Open Discussion

[Kilta_Firelotus]

Dude you know i'm right we will need a hate meter only when there's gonna be real strategic battles with mobs that can pretty much one shot or do 90% damage in one hit to any one in the party except the tank. For now... ummm NO we don't need it.

You do realise that they are doing a complete core overhault this include mobs. And are tweaking and changing everything. And fyi ffxi wasn't that hard and once COP was out ppl just zerged in leveling parties and only used routine strats in end game. It got to the point where ffxi became easy. (pre treasures) So you are not correct sir.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

I'm honestly hoping for some WoW-like bosses (setting the bar high). Some of those bosses just could not be beat for weeks/months until people got their gear/act together.

This of course, is only for raid content. I don't expect that level of difficulty from Lv30 stuff although I am totally looking forward to a challenge.

Lets just hope that yes they do add the "hard" WoW like content minus all those flipping addons
DON'T STAND IN THE FIRE!! (car alarm goes off over you PC speakers the second your in fire)
(ps joking)

I wouldn't mind having bosses so huge our character look like ants compared to it Like kirin, but bigger.

[origamikitsune]

You know, I can think of something the hate meter would be great for... I'd like to see wtf is happening while fighting Cactar Jack... XD

[Dargoth_Draconia]

Actually Lerris you may not show 100% depends on how it is done. It might be done 100% spread across a party in relation to you, while they do different actions your 100% may flitter around 50-60% while the party destroys the mob and their percentile will adjust during that time. That or it will be each individual person percentile based on the tank.

[Verecund]

To be perfectly honest, if they put in an "aggro meter" into the game at its current state it would be wholly unecessary because enmity mechanics are currently either broken or hard to completely understand and work with.

But in the end, I would rather them balance around difficulties other than "generally acquiring too much enmity." If they want enmity to play an interesting role, I say find a way to mechanically work it into encounters rather than just having it sit there in the background collecting vast amounts of enmity from buffs XD

[Lerris]

Actually Lerris you may not show 100% depends on how it is done. It might be done 100% spread across a party in relation to you, while they do different actions your 100% may flitter around 50-60% while the party destroys the mob and their percentile will adjust during that time. That or it will be each individual person percentile based on the tank.

I'll repeat the quote:
"Furthermore, a player’s enmity will be made constantly visible as a percentage of that of the party member being attacked."

There is no speculation in my post. They've told us straight up how it will be done.

[Xatsh]

Pros:
1) Easy to understand now, no questions. Really good for casuals and those not wanting to worry about number crunching.

Cons:
1) It removed a huge chunk of skill required. Learning to manage hate, either holding it on limiting hate on a DD job while dealing the most dmg possible was something that separated a skilled player from a noob. Aka this is a easy button bad for hardcore ppl.

I see this as a major negative, but the only negative to the whole planned battle changes. And those saying just have a turn off option. Well if it is there people are going to use it, those not using it will be reamed by their guilds for not performing at optimal efficiency.

[Ayerc]

My gut reaction was to dislike the enmity gauge, mainly while under the impression that it was basically an easy mode. After reading some of the comments in the thread, I can say that didn't hold water. But I'm still against the meter.

Adding a hate meter has an incredible impact on the fundamentals of battle. When it's there, we will be constantly looking at it, to make sure we're riding the edge. Some argue that this is fun and challenging, and while I don't disagree with that, I'm concerned that it will become such an overwhelming factor, that battles become...too systematic, too much of a number cruncher and not more of an exciting thing to do.

Part of the fun in a battle is having some unpredictability. If a boss suddenly goes for the mage line, and wipes half of them out, your battle tactics need to change while you get back on your feet. Riding the edge of a full wipe is much more exciting than riding the edge of whether or not someone takes hate. Of course, there's a chance that this could still happen with the gauge in place, but it'll be a whole lot more unlikely if we can see the numbers.

Having the gauge will let us in on the inner workings of any encounter. What weapon types do more damage, what a particular boss is watchful of (i.e. do cures generate more hate on one boss over another), etc. etc. It could be possible to formulate the most effective boss strategy in the first encounter. Where's the challenge in that?

Essentially, adding in the hate gauge will remove a lot the mystique of battles, and a lot of the fun and excitement that goes with it.


And I don't agree with the 3rd party tool argument either. If you can't beat them, join them? That's never been a good reason to do anything...ever. It's just giving up.

[Mack]

Easy Mode / You don't have to learn your job as well / The game plays itself

First of all having a hate meter doesn't mean I can jump on a Job and spam buttons and everything will work out, I don't know how you managed to deduce that the game plays itself because we can see our enmity generation. I am neither for nor against the hate meter and I'll judge it when I see it, simply because I don't care, but if I think about it it'll just be another dimension for the tank especially to take care of - as you watch your hate meter and work a routine against a given mob to keep it as high as possible. It wont change much of anything else without it being there because the mages will have to watch their hate level as will everyone else...it just makes for good party dynamics imo.

[Arcell]

Cons:
1) It removed a huge chunk of skill required. Learning to manage hate, either holding it on limiting hate on a DD job while dealing the most dmg possible was something that separated a skilled player from a noob. Aka this is a easy button bad for hardcore ppl.

It really doesn't though, all it does is display that information. If you don't know how to manage hate on your class you're not going to be able to do it effectively to any extent. People who don't care, don't know or don't pay attention will still pull hate and it will still be because they aren't skilled enough.

If anything this shows people with hard evidence how what they're doing effects hate in the battle. It can actually be used to more easily teach people how to effectively manage their hate during battle. Also you can actually push the limits of what you can do further because of this without fear of screwing up and shit hitting the fan. You can stick as close to the line as you want without pulling aggro and now you won't have any excuse if you do.