[Dev1058] Hate Meter / Pros / Cons / Open Discussion

[Tezz_Xivectro]

They said they were adding it. >_>

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...print?p=138995

SE also tends to make adjustments based on feedback.

What i meant to say was that SE should follow through with their idea of displaying percentages. Not just Green, Yellow, Red (with no % displayed) like someone else suggested.

[Jennestia]

FFXI has an enmity meter via Libra and no one said it made the game easier.

[Magiksmurf]

I don't know why ppl want a hate meter so bad when even casters can tank most mobs in this game cause its to easy unless leves are set to 5 stars. =/ This is not FFXI or WoW, were talking about casualfantasy xiv here.

[Viridiana]

Oh, okay. . . Carry on, then.

/goes to sleep

[Arcell]

Cons:
Easy Mode / You don't have to learn your job as well / The game plays itself
It encourages people to watch numbers instead of the game
What is the point of even having hate, if everyone knows what it is?

*It doesn't make the game easy mode, it's just displaying information.

*If anything it more easily gives players an accurate means of seeing how well they are playing their class/role in terms of enmity generation.

*You have to glance at the meter for half a second and you know what's going on. That's like saying because a car has a speedometer it encourages you to watch that instead of the road.

*What's the point? So everyone knows. Whether or not they displayed it in-game, if the info was made available people would generally have a good idea if they wanted to.

Even if you know what the numbers are you still have to then act on that information and appropriately manage your hate. It's not like seeing a number does anything aside from inform you. With that information you then have to make the conscious decision to generate more or less hate or maintain your current rate. If you're gaining too much you have to use skills to lower it or slow down your attacks. You still have to know how to do that, people who don't aren't going to make good use of the information.

[Altano]

*You have to glance at the meter for half a second and you know what's going on. That's like saying because a car has a speedometer it encourages you to watch that instead of the road.

I drive a manual transmission and know the speed and rpms of my car based on gear and sound of engine, not the meters. :P But I've also been driving this car for seven years, so I know exactly how to work it. My analogy follows below...

On a serious note, however, I think this display has a place in this game as long as it doesn't allow you to see beyond your own enmity level as a percentage of the person currently drawing the mob's attention. I do think it encourages smart gameplay by giving people the opportunity to know if a (for example) 3000 TP Doomspike II fully loaded with Ferocity II will draw aggro (Protip: It probably will). I imagine that players who don't need it will ignore it. I also imagine that as players learn how much their playstyle and class/job tends to accumulate enmity, they will pay less attention to it in everyday settings.

Admittedly, I played WHM in FFXI in the same shell as OP, joining generally around the time he no longer played much and had about the same level of respect among the same group of people that he had earned. It felt nice and all because I knew I did what I needed to do correctly. I rarely used Stoneskin or Blink in everyday gameplay because I was either confident or cocky enough (or both) to not need/use them. And I was almost always right. The times I was wrong tended to be calculated risks (needing to use a -ga Cure spell against flies comes to mind) knowing full well that I could end up face-down but at least the whole party wouldn't wipe (Protip: I probably would). And in general I was proud of how well I managed hate.

But this isn't FFXI (although judging by the way these forums have reacted to last nights battle adjustments post, you'd think it is on its way there). And I think that in terms of optimizing high-end battle content (something this game has been SORELY lacking), it just might have a place here. I doubt it is a necessary tool, but I don't see it harming the overall gameplay. People will use it when/if necessary and not always stick to it by the letter, judging for themselves what is needed from them in the battle...just like after running through a zone enough times, you know it well enough to not need a map even when you aren't sticking to the path.

[Ayerc]

I drive a manual transmission and know the speed and rpms of my car based on gear and sound of engine.

On a serious note, however, I think this display has a place in this game as long as it doesn't allow you to see beyond your own enmity level as a percentage of the person currently drawing the mob's attention.

You make some good points here, and I hope that this is how the gauge is implemented. Only seeing your own enmity level is far less intrusive than seeing the entire party's. Though I'd still prefer to not have any gauge at all, that's not the reality of the situation, one is on it's way.

[Kurokikaze]

Nothing wrong with a hate meter. From a balance/dev perspective it makes balancing abilities/spells enmity that much easier going forward.

If you think this is going to make things easier than they are you're sorely mistaken. Unless you really really suck... you don't lose hate on current HNMs. Thats just how it goes.

[Malakhim]

Nothing wrong with a hate meter. From a balance/dev perspective it makes balancing abilities/spells enmity that much easier going forward.

If you think this is going to make things easier than they are you're sorely mistaken. Unless you really really suck... you don't lose hate on current HNMs. Thats just how it goes.

Exactly. Right now the dev mindset is "well, we've managed to fix that nasty mess that was battle algorithms, and we're giving the players the knowledge they'll need to progress, now let's get ready to up the ante."

I'd expect combat to get much trickier with the addition of a hate meter and auto-attack. The devs aren't stupid.

This all falls in line with Yoshi's first few statements about making the game rules easy to understand, and easy to understand /= easy. If anything, it let's them make things harder.

[Kurokikaze]

Exactly. Right now the dev mindset is "well, we've managed to fix that nasty mess that was battle algorithms, and we're giving the players the knowledge they'll need to progress, now let's get ready to up the ante."

I'd expect combat to get much trickier with the addition of a hate meter and auto-attack. The devs aren't stupid.

Thank you for looking at this in a proactive way. The devs will not start making it so that tanks will have to keep a close eye on their threat instead of how it is now where passed a certain point its almost impossible to lose hate.