Battle Reform Blueprint

[BruceyBruceyBangBang]

strict classes are challenging to find every person you need to play. Not challenging to play, dont mistake difficulty for your type of class system. Why is it more challenging to be a pure role? i think its actually more challenging when you have the ability to do more than one thing, and you have to actually decide what to do, what your good at, and how to make it work.

For example, the other day i was bored soloing, so i asked random people to party with me on leves, one was an archer 3 levels higher than me. Being that i dont like going weak, i sought to make the monsters at least 10 levels higher than her, of course you can always choose exactly so they ended it up 12 levels higher than her, 15 and 16 higher than the glad tank. 3 people glad pug archer,

It was fairly challenging, the mobs hit like bricks, and their aoe sleeps slows and blinds put us in danger numerous times, many a person was saved in yellow with a last second cure from another player, and people woke up people with cure, and then that person usually woke up the other one. It was way more challenging than if one of us was a pure healer, in that case i could have relaxed and just done DD, i wouldnt have to tank some mobs, throw an occaisonal heal to the tank or the archer who had hate, or try to cure people awake, it was fairly challenging (compared to normal play) probably even more so because we didnt have a pure healer, with which it would be easy sauce.

strict classes arent challenging in and of themselves.

So you believe disorganized chaos is superior to being more challenging because you made purposefully placed hoop jumping in your battle strategy?

Some people like to be more efficient and organized with the challenges being placed on the mob. These are all balancing issues with the mobs in that case and not pure roles.

[Physic]

So you believe disorganized chaos is superior to being more challenging because you made purposefully placed hoop jumping in your battle strategy?

Some people like to be more efficient and organized with the challenges being placed on the mob. These are all balancing issues with the mobs in that case and not pure roles.

thats not challenge you want then, what you want is less challenge and more structure, structure is not challenge. Im not saying that you shouldnt want structure, im saying dont call structure challenge. You want to do one thing, and have some one else do one thing and together you play, thats fine, but its not any more challenging or skillfull. I also dont see why the fact that you want to do one thing should force everyone to play your style.
If i had a healing conjurer, i would have adapted my playstyle and skill bar to take advantage of the fact that we had a healer, it would have been easier. But notice how we were actually able to get something done, although it be more difficult, by taking advantage of our strengths to make up for our weaknesses, although our cure potential was much lower, we all shared the burden, and used my off tank ability and enhanced DD to deal with situation, that is real strategy, adapting on the fly to the situation with the tools you are given. Sitting around waiting for 3 specific play types or you cant do anything is not challenge. did you play ffxi? do you know how many people ran around a moogle for hours? do you know how impossible it was for a dragoon to get invited? Do you know how many 5 man parties of varied jobs disbanded because they couldnt find a whm or a pld/nin?

if you have a class, you are the best with your skill set, hands down, if you can play with mostly your skillsets abilities, you will always be better off, you will do more damage, be more accurate, and make better use of in class synergies, but when you cant, you can all hybridize, lowering your strengths to make up for your weakness, this is a good gameplay mechanic.

But really i guess you just want people to have to sit around waiting for a healer all day, because in your perfect system we would only have 2 healers and 7 DDs and 7 tanks i dont see how that is balanced, or logical.
Everyone can take damage, everyone can deal damage, not everyone can heal, you will just imbalance the game to healing classes, and you want them to be intrinsicly more valuable than any other player.

[BruceyBruceyBangBang]

thats not challenge you want then, what you want is less challenge and more structure, structure is not challenge. Im not saying that you shouldnt want structure, im saying dont call structure challenge. You want to do one thing, and have some one else do one thing and together you play, thats fine, but its not any more challenging or skillfull. I also dont see why the fact that you want to do one thing should force everyone to play your style.
If i had a healing conjurer, i would have adapted my playstyle and skill bar to take advantage of the fact that we had a healer, it would have been easier. But notice how we were actually able to get something done, although it be more difficult, by taking advantage of our strengths to make up for our weaknesses, although our cure potential was much lower, we all shared the burden, and used my off tank ability and enhanced DD to deal with situation, that is real strategy, adapting on the fly to the situation with the tools you are given. Sitting around waiting for 3 specific play types or you cant do anything is not challenge. did you play ffxi? do you know how many people ran around a moogle for hours? do you know how impossible it was for a dragoon to get invited? Do you know how many 5 man parties of varied jobs disbanded because they couldnt find a whm or a pld/nin?

if you have a class, you are the best with your skill set, hands down, if you can play with mostly your skillsets abilities, you will always be better off, you will do more damage, be more accurate, and make better use of in class synergies, but when you cant, you can all hybridize, lowering your strengths to make up for your weakness, this is a good gameplay mechanic.

But really i guess you just want people to have to sit around waiting for a healer all day, because in your perfect system we would only have 2 healers and 7 DDs and 7 tanks i dont see how that is balanced, or logical.
Everyone can take damage, everyone can deal damage, not everyone can heal, you will just imbalance the game to healing classes, and you want them to be intrinsicly more valuable than any other player.

You're missing the point. You are still saying that the chaos and added responsibilities between players makes it challenging (which is really more chaotic and stressful) when it doesn't need to be. When I look at a party who gets by looking sloppy, I don't see that as a challenge.

On top of that, when formulas are simplified and condensed, this kind of play-style will be near obsolete and for good reason. There should be no reason for hoop jumping when forming a group in terms of proficiency, but in the challenge of the opposite end of the battle.

Also, please do not tell me what I find to be a perfect system. First you have to understand the system and where it is said it is going before even discussing it which you clearly do not. And if you do, it's wanting to go in a direction that is irrational or unnecessary. If you wern't so interested in hearing yourself talk, you'd actually see some pretty good arguments several pages back before you started into the debate. All of which sound more balanced and fun. Not unnecessarily difficult and sounding like you want to keep player's roles in a mediocre state to allow you to continue making a clusterf#$% you call a group.

[Firon]

I don't get why people get bothered to use party strats when they are in a party but then after the pt you can do what ever you want with your class its only for party play and promotes fast killing is all.

Like i remeber in XI had this pld who wanted to be a DD on pld he obviously playing the wrong job be cause even with right gear pld DD was OK but never over the top dmg same thing with rdm yes it was forced to be a refresher and debuffer but outside of pt RDM could Tank Heal play support and even Nuke with he all the correct gear and subs.

Aslo as an side note if you don't know Almost ever FF game to Date RDM has always been a better magic user and a sub par melee class just stating this before someone comes and says RDM never has been good at both equally in ever FF its been cause that's bs.

[ZephyrAM]

Aslo as an side note if you don't know Almost ever FF game to Date RDM has always been a better magic user and a sub par melee class just stating this before someone comes and says RDM never has been good at both equally in ever FF its been cause that's bs.

I actually have found that to be untrue in most every FF I've ever played. Redmages do just as well attacking as they do casting spells in FFI, FFIII, and FFV. They're faster then warriors, but not as fast as the blackbelt/ninja styles, and hit for just a bit less. They have fewer MP and can use fewer spells then the other mage classes, but do relative damage.

Sounds fairly balanced between the two to me.

[OMEGA_HACK]

Oh I want the strict classes, because I enjoy the challenge, the reason why I was fixing ZephyrAM's post.

[Physic]

Oh I want the strict classes, because I enjoy the challenge, the reason why I was fixing ZephyrAM's post.

strict classes dont equal challenge, unless searching for one person is the type of challenge you like

[Firon]

TheVedis i know what you mean about people they think if you click one button the UI will change also its funny cause i was @ the UTGF in Chicago this weekend (Ultimate fighting game tourney) and the people who makes MK9 was there and people was asking the Dev hey when are you gonna add this and change that.

One this that caught my attention was they a few people was asking about adding a button config change to the menu you know 3/3 the devs there answered the same way you hate SE answering We know player want it but adding a button config menu takes time to do why it may seem like something rather easy to do its HARD TO RECODE A GAME THAT'S ALREADY BEEN RELEASED SO IT TAKES TIME. That's all i wanted people to know.

[Firon]

No That is wrong cause if you look @ the base stats from RDM in every game the stats always favor magic stats this is fact Here is my Level 99 RDM from my FF 3 save file 52 STR 52 AGL 62 VIT INT and MND even with the best sword in game it can't do more than its spells RDM is always an better magic user and this trend is in ever FF game that has rdm always better magic stats.

edit: also rdm has never been faster than any warrior in an Ff game Lolz.

[ZephyrAM]

No That is wrong cause if you look @ the base stats from RDM in every game the stats always favor magic stats this is fact Here is my Level 99 RDM from my FF 3 save file 52 STR 52 AGL 62 VIT INT and MND even with the best sword in game it can't do more than its spells RDM is always an better magic user and this trend is in ever FF game that has rdm always better magic stats.

Which is pretty close to what I said .

Yes, the magic stats of an RDM are better then their physical stats, as they have to be for their magic damage/healing to keep up with that of the other mages.

However, their lower MP and lack of spell choices make them weaker magically then the other mages, and at the same time, with strong equipment they can hold their own with the other combat classes around. They generally have lower defense (though higher then other mages), but their dealt damage is close to the offensive combat types and greater then the defensive or more mid range combat types.

I'm not stating that their pure physical damage is higher then their pure magical damage. They balance in other ways.