PLEASE stop telling summoners to use Ifrit!!!

[Kevee]

Oh, and before you say anything, especially for people providing data, provide data yourself when you have a counter-claim.

You're abrasive for no reason.

Oh, and PS.

DK is a 3 DPS gain for Ifrit.

So he will do 1 more DPS than Garuda.

At a loss of Contagion, and being in melee.

Which also doesn't factor in Garuda doing more with Foe Requieum.


http://i.imgur.com/qXMDjuM.jpg

He was actually hovering around 59 DPS most of the time, I wanted to be nice and SS it at 60.


As compared to:

Ifrit no DK

http://i.imgur.com/iHyYWwF.jpg


Garuda no Foe Req

http://i.imgur.com/9rpXAAi.jpg

I just laugh at anyone dumb enough that thinks doing damage on a test dummy proves anything when it comes to pets.



People also forgot that Ifrit hits twice as much as Garuda so its more likely to proc Enhanced Pet Abilities which gives you a nice haste bonus. So the argument should be is that buff better than Contagion every minute, I think Contagion is amazing and great but a bit overrated.

Because, you know, it kind of does. If one pet does more on a DUMMY, not even mentioning ranged or melee, with equal damage buffs/debuffs they will always do more. ALWAYS. PERIOD.
That's why dummy testing is always important.

Spell Speed is a very marginal stat for SMN. Our DoTs don't tick any faster with SS. For me, I have to expend 13 GCDs while under that pet passive to "gain" an extra GCD. Is an extra 80 potency every 13 GCDs, only while the ability is procced(which for me is 3%[6% with Ifrit] uptime), worth an inferior DPS pet(+melee) and loss of Contagion? I highly, highly doubt it.

I love the SMN class but my only real issue is horrible target swap DPS for low HP targets like rock jails on Titan, with a good group I just ignore them.

Sidebar: My whole point in all this back and forth is don't pretend you know everything and anyone that got different results or doing something different than you is wrong. Hear that person out and test it then make your own judgement. The game is not even 2 months old so stuff is bound to change especially when people get more gear and experience and DPS meters get better(I think are wrong 90% of the time but they are a decent judge). I find it hard to believe the dots are accurate when dot dmg doesn't show up in your combat log.

Have your 8-man be, you know, coordinated and run Gaols to Titan so you can Bane on them?

My whole point is I have tested things, and I am testing things. There's no reason to be an abrasive asshole when a new element is introduced that people didn't know, or think about, before. Also, make an informed decision. Think before you post.

Please do some actual research, or data gathering, before you post like an abrasive asshole. Even some napkin math would've told you that Ifrit still isn't worth it. You don't get to make a claim, especially against data already present, that it's wrong--Without providing data of your own.

[Spythe]

Please do some actual research, or data gathering, before you post like an abrasive asshole. Even some napkin math would've told you that Ifrit still isn't worth it. You don't get to make a claim, especially against data already present, that it's wrong--Without providing data of your own.

A few points I disagree, does Ifrit being melee really make that much of a difference? Once again I find Ifrit a bit more manageable than Gurada because you know where hes at 100% of the time. No my Titan group doesn't run the rock jail next to the boss 100% of the time because its simply not needed with geared DPS. I see all of this is actually new data you just recently did and the only reason I didn't provide my own data and test is because I refuse download the parser app since I'm not convinced it's 100% accurate on actually fighting encounters. It is on test dummies.

So you only tested DK? Not the Warriors debuff or the Dragon debuff as well? Once again to ME contagion is overrated, and from the start I say Gurada would do more dmg with Foes. I still stay by my statement which you have actually proved Ifrit does more raw damage than Guarda with a melee heavy group. While Gurada does more with Foes up.

[glim]

----

look at this video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMXxGBCCNJc that's on turn 1 ADS, they pulled at 2:30, the summoner's ifrit died at 2:36. and snake boss tailswipe + melee cleave.

turn 2. ADS anti melee attacks again.

turn 4. with all the mobs spawning at different spawnpoints, ifrit would be spending more time moving around than attacking + melee cleaves again, while garuda just stands in a safe spot and just range attacks everything you order it to attack.

even with the melee debuffs ifrit would lose because he uses burning strike every 4 seconds (delay), while garuda uses her wind blade every 3 seconds.

Ifrit is 100% useless.

[Spythe]

turn 4. with all the mobs spawning at different spawnpoints, ifrit would be spending more time moving around than attacking + melee cleaves again, while garuda just stands in a safe spot and just range attacks everything you order it to attack.

even with the melee debuffs ifrit would lose because he uses burning strike every 4 seconds (delay), while garuda uses her wind blade every 3 seconds.

Ifrit is 100% useless.

I can see Ifrit being annoying in Turn 1 and unusable in 2 but I used Ifrit in Turn 4 and didn't have a problem keeping him alive at all. The reason I switched to Ifrit was Garuda pulled an add on one run so it delayed DPS a bit on the Demolisher so I switched pet BUT this was before the recent patch. Not even sure how Garuda pulled the add, it seems like sometimes adds in Turn 4 just pick someone to attack before enmity is even generated.

How nice, you changed your tone when you got called out. I'd rather you continue posting like you did prior.

How did I change my tone, I'm still laughing at people that think one pet is the clear choice no matter the situation. Still think testing a pet DPS on a targeting dummy is pointless. Ifrit having to move to attack doesn't "kill" his DPS that much. Landslide also effects Garuda because it knocks her out of range then she has to move in a bit closer to continue casting.

I will repeat I just don't think there is a clear winner of which is the better pet til more test are done. Is that changing my tone?

Did I ever say Ifrit is the clear choice no matter the situation?

At least we can agree that Mr. Happy gives out bad information a lot of the time.

At the end of the day I think it just depends on the situation to decide what pet to use which is what I've been saying the entire time if that makes me an asshole for not bowing my head and believing Garuda is the better choice no matter the situation because she does more damage on a target dummy then so be it.

[glim]

I can see Ifrit being annoying in Turn 1 and 2 but I used Ifrit in Turn 4 and didn't have a problem keeping alive at all. The reason I switched to Ifrit was G pulled an add on one run so it delayed DPS a bit BUT this was before the recent patch.

keeping him alive is just one of the pet concerns on turn 4, garuda doing more dps than him because of range (meaning more time standing and dps than ifrit running around just to move to the target) that and contagion, there is no point in using ifrit.

there is no argument on all coil fights, garuda wins hands down. the only way ifrit MIGHT be able to beat garuda is only on special circumstances when at least 2 melee debuffs (im assuming only 1 can apply) apply and ifrit's burning strike recast is 3 instead of 4. but even then, ifrit is gonna get buttmangled by garuda's contagion + battlevoice foe requiem.

there is no point using ifrit as of now, especially with his 4 second burning strike recast, and even if they fix that, you still need at least 2 melee debuffs to apply for it to be on par with garuda (but can still be beaten by just having 1 bard in a group for voice+foe)

[Kevee]

A few points I disagree, does Ifrit being melee really make that much of a difference? Once again I find Ifrit a bit more manageable than Gurada because you know where hes at 100% of the time. No my Titan group doesn't run the rock jail next to the boss 100% of the time because its simply not needed with geared DPS. I see all of this is actually new data you just recently did and the only reason I didn't provide my own data and test is because I refuse download the parser app since I'm not convinced it's 100% accurate on actually fighting encounters. It is on test dummies.

So you only tested DK? Not the Warriors debuff or the Dragon debuff as well? Once again to ME contagion is overrated, and from the start I say Gurada would do more dmg with Foes. I still stay by my statement which you have actually proved Ifrit does more raw damage than Guarda with a melee heavy group. While Gurada does more with Foes up.

Yes, it does make a difference. Pets take full damage from cleaves, are subject to melee AoEs which over time will kill them unless you heal your pet(wasting GCDs), can add AoE into melee, and it's melee which means they have less up-time on the boss.

Oh, you want to change targets on Turn 1? Ifrit has to walk all the way over. "But Zelia, I can just leave Ifrit on the old target!" -- Yeah, you could, or you could just use Garuda who has no problem target switching and has Contagion.

Turn 2 ifrit dies, as shown above.

Turn 4 Ifrit has to walk all over.

How about non-BoC?

Ifrit - At a detriment during/after jumps. He moves, unless you "Place" him, and then if the tank moves ifrit at all he won't be in range. AoE knockback circle has no effect on Garuda.
Garuda - I shouldn't even need to say it, but she ports around, the sisters appear, etc. Garuda doesn't have to move, loses no uptime.
Titan - Ifrit loses DPS during jumps, need to move out of cleave after jump. Can't jump to Gaol as fast. No contagion+RS for heart. Landslide doesn't effect Garuda as much.

The only new data is the parsing with DK and finding that Storm's Eye does nothing. Read posts before responding.

Also, I can confirm Storm's Eye(Slashing Resistance) does not buff Ifrit, and that DK(blunt resistance) does.

Ifrit does a negligible amount more DPS(re: basically even), only while DK is up(which won't have a 100% uptime, either) and offers nothing, while being able to be a detriment to the group and other melee.




How nice, you changed your tone when you got called out. I'd rather you continue posting like you did prior.