PLEASE stop telling summoners to use Ifrit!!!

[glim]

Can I get a link to that youtube video you watched? I just read it from comments so far.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diROOR4VZKg

somewhere in the video he mentions all 3 resistances affects ifrit.

[azethoth]

try removing all your gear except the weapon, garuda's damage will be extremely low, at around 100 each wind blade, but if you remove all your gear on ifrit the attacks only lose a couple of damage (probably because determination scales with ifrit but not int)

Just did as you suggested. Ifrits auto attack goes from 60-70 to 40 his and burning strike down to 80-90 from 130 ish. I only tested it briefly, I am not a number cruncher.

Meanwhile Garuda goes from 180-194 down to like 120-130ish.

I would have to conclude that Ifrit DOES scale from int in the same amount as Garuda, the difference being that the scaling is split between his auto attack and burning strike, where as Garduda scaled directly into Windblade.

Again this is just a proof of concept not a conclusive study of dps.
If Ifrit is really as you say gimped and only spamming burning strike every 4 seconds, this could lower his potential, however it may be intended since his auto attack almost always goes off a second before that and he could suffer from animation lock preventing him from executing it at the 3 second mark.

EDIT: After actually watching Ifrit attack I am convinced that the reason he delays burning strike is because of his auto attack, animation lock must be it. But think about it, he is delaying burning strike by one second or so to auto attack which when added together are either the same or more than windblade , is that really a net loss of dps?

[xxalucard]

but the 4 seconds every attack is pretty much what kills it for ifrit.

I agree, this is the main factor above all that did it for me too. I'd also like to say the spell speed really isn't that helpful since we don't gain much from 20% of a 2.5 second cast (a few tenths of a second maybe?) and half the time that occurs you've already finished casting your dot rotation.

EDIT: After actually watching Ifrit attack I am convinced that the reason he delays burning strike is because of his auto attack, animation lock must be it. But think about it, he is delaying burning strike by one second or so to auto attack which when added together are either the same or more than windblade , is that really a net loss of dps?

yes

[glim]

------

you're right, I tested it earlier and saw "70+ damage" so I thought that's probably his autoattack changing damage slightly or not at all, I guess that was his burning strike.

cause I tested it now again for the second time, it did lower his damage significantly, err.. I ought to watch these things a little closer.

EDIT: I know now what went wrong, ifrit snapshots your stats when you summon him. so when i tested it earlier, I saw no damage difference when I removed my gear because it was still carrying the snapshotted stats when I had the gear on.

[azethoth]

you're right, I tested it earlier and saw "70+ damage" so I thought that's probably his autoattack changing damage slightly or not at all, I guess that was his burning strike.

cause I tested it now again for the second time, it did lower his damage significantly, err.. I ought to watch these things a little closer.

EDIT: I know now what went wrong, ifrit snapshots your stats when you summon him. so when i tested it earlier, I saw no damage difference when I removed my gear because it was still carrying the snapshotted stats when I had the gear on.

Indeed snapshot at summon. Perhaps you may be able to help test this better. From what I can tell they don't so much as snap shot your stats, as they snap shot your gear.
What I mean is: I had a thought to pop a HQ mega pot of int before summon to see if they would benefit from that, but it seems that even though it adds the int to your stats, that temp int doesn't transfer to the pet.
Now I am not saying it should but if I am seeing it wrong, it could be an interesting way for a small dps increase.
EDIT:
@xxalucard
just an immediate yes? Kinda short response.
Has anyone timed how long wind blade takes to travel to the mob? Given that she should always be at range and is normally at max range, travel time of the attack should be factored in when comparing it to Ifrit's auto attack +burning strike.

[LionKing]

I have been called using Ifrit in some cases, rarely mind you, just because I did not put her on Obey (I am lazy ) and she uses her random knock back which piss the tank off for chasing the mobs every time

[Sehkmet]

I don't know about you, but I've been using both... Ifrit for trash mobs, since I can normally put him on Sic and he does more dps than garuda that way, unless we need to sleep adds, in which case I put him on obey, until last target, and then change it to sic...
During trash mob fights, it's normally not worth using contagion, as mobs die too fast and then i find really little use for garuda, I really think Ifrit is so much better to deal with trash mobs, so much faster...

I do find use in ruin 2, it is a good finisher, when a mob is near dead, I usually combo ruin I > ruin II, for a fast 160 potency to bring down the mob and move to the other one. During trash mobs you really can't run out of mana, seriouslly...

Now, when It comes to boss fights, Garuda is infinitly better, using Contagion to extend your raging strikes dot's, plus thunder/miasma 2 just pops your damage output skyhigh... And it makes so much easier to manage the dots over the boss. It makes Fester management a lot easier.

Overall Garuda is better, but during trash mob fights, there is just no time to enjoy the gains from her Contagion, mobs come down just too fast.

[Kevee]

From the grapevine, I'm don't even know if its true but if Ifrit benefits from 1 melee debuff he will be more damage than Garuda.

No, because, you know, Foe Req.

Even if you don't have it, for whatever laughable reason, the debuff will be a ~13% DPS increase. Putting Ifrit right around 64 DPS.

Is 5 DPS worth Contagion? I doubt it.
Is 5 DPS worth having a melee pet? I doubt it.


Also, I can confirm Storm's Eye(Slashing Resistance) does not buff Ifrit, and that DK(blunt resistance) does.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diROOR4VZKg

somewhere in the video he mentions all 3 resistances affects ifrit.

How did I know it would be Mr. Happy? I hate that guy. People put him on a pedestal and think he's the best, and knows everything.

He's a mediocre player that spreads mis-information to his fans.

[PessimiStick]

How did I know it would be Mr. Happy? I hate that guy. People put him on a pedestal and think he's the best, and knows everything.

He's a mediocre player that spreads mis-information to his fans.

Yeah, I can't watch his stuff because I always want to correct it. And he can't pronounce Amdapor correctly.

[Kevee]

Oh, and before you say anything, especially for people providing data, provide data yourself when you have a counter-claim.

You're abrasive for no reason.

Oh, and PS.

DK is a 3 DPS gain for Ifrit.

So he will do 1 more DPS than Garuda.

At a loss of Contagion, and being in melee.

Which also doesn't factor in Garuda doing more with Foe Requieum.


http://i.imgur.com/qXMDjuM.jpg

He was actually hovering around 59 DPS most of the time, I wanted to be nice and SS it at 60.


As compared to:

Ifrit no DK

http://i.imgur.com/iHyYWwF.jpg


Garuda no Foe Req

http://i.imgur.com/9rpXAAi.jpg

I just laugh at anyone dumb enough that thinks doing damage on a test dummy proves anything when it comes to pets.



People also forgot that Ifrit hits twice as much as Garuda so its more likely to proc Enhanced Pet Abilities which gives you a nice haste bonus. So the argument should be is that buff better than Contagion every minute, I think Contagion is amazing and great but a bit overrated.

Because, you know, it kind of does. If one pet does more on a DUMMY, not even mentioning ranged or melee, with equal damage buffs/debuffs they will always do more. ALWAYS. PERIOD.
That's why dummy testing is always important.

Spell Speed is a very marginal stat for SMN. Our DoTs don't tick any faster with SS. For me, I have to expend 13 GCDs while under that pet passive to "gain" an extra GCD. Is an extra 80 potency every 13 GCDs, only while the ability is procced(which for me is 3%[6% with Ifrit] uptime), worth an inferior DPS pet(+melee) and loss of Contagion? I highly, highly doubt it.

I love the SMN class but my only real issue is horrible target swap DPS for low HP targets like rock jails on Titan, with a good group I just ignore them.

Sidebar: My whole point in all this back and forth is don't pretend you know everything and anyone that got different results or doing something different than you is wrong. Hear that person out and test it then make your own judgement. The game is not even 2 months old so stuff is bound to change especially when people get more gear and experience and DPS meters get better(I think are wrong 90% of the time but they are a decent judge). I find it hard to believe the dots are accurate when dot dmg doesn't show up in your combat log.

Have your 8-man be, you know, coordinated and run Gaols to Titan so you can Bane on them?

My whole point is I have tested things, and I am testing things. There's no reason to be an abrasive asshole when a new element is introduced that people didn't know, or think about, before. Also, make an informed decision. Think before you post.

Please do some actual research, or data gathering, before you post like an abrasive asshole. Even some napkin math would've told you that Ifrit still isn't worth it. You don't get to make a claim, especially against data already present, that it's wrong--Without providing data of your own.