PLEASE stop telling summoners to use Ifrit!!!

[glim]

No idea about SMN, I just wanted some info because I am leveling, but MNK's "Dragon Kick" lowers blunt resistance.

yeah I did mention blunt resist, but what I meant to say is that it cannot be affected by all 3 resistances it can only benefit from one debuff, it cannot be all blunt/piercing/slashing

edit: I'm curious about this, waiting for people to go online just to test if it does get increased by 30%.

[Spythe]

I'm siding with who? what makes you think I'm siding with anyone here, I'm critiquing both of you.

From the grapevine, I'm don't even know if its true but if Ifrit benefits from 1 melee debuff he will be more damage than Garuda. The only test I've done have been on Titan where I used Ifrit for a run and Garuda for a run. Ifrit total was 25k dmg while Garuda was 20k now does Contagion make up for that difference? Don't know and we only had a MNK appealing the melee debuff. I just laugh at anyone dumb enough that thinks doing damage on a test dummy proves anything when it comes to pets.

I guess I don't run with enough BLMs but I don't play with any BRDs that use Foe Requiem but my Coil group is melee heavy with me being the caster so it makes sense.

I think me and you are on the same page where we are at least curious to fully test Ifrit before we claim he is bad and awful. I mean it makes a lot of sense to have a melee pet do more melee dmg with melee debuffs. While a caster pet does more caster dmg with a caster debuff.

People also forgot that Ifrit hits twice as much as Garuda so its more likely to proc Enhanced Pet Abilities which gives you a nice haste bonus. So the argument should be is that buff better than Contagion every minute, I think Contagion is amazing and great but a bit overrated.

[Xianghua]

From the grapevine, I'm don't even know if its true but if Ifrit benefits from 1 melee debuff he will be more damage than Garuda. The only test I've done have been on Titan where I used Ifrit for a run and Garuda for a run. Ifrit total was 25k dmg while Garuda was 20k now does Contagion make up for that difference? Don't know and we only had a MNK appealing the melee debuff. I just laugh at anyone dumb enough to doing damage on a parser proves anything when it comes to pets.

I guess I don't run with enough BLMs but I don't play with any BRDs that use Foe Requiem but my Coil group is melee heavy with me being the caster so it makes sense.

Ifrit does get a bonus from Dragon kick.

[azethoth]

I would have to say that Ifrit benefits off of int, there is no other way his damage will continue to go up since my str has been static for a long time. Currently his auto attack + burning strike do the same or more damage as Garuda's Wind Blade. Often more since both his auto attack and burning stike have a chance to crit.
His enkindle does more damage than Garuda's. Has a dot effect on top of the initial hit.

Is he more dps than garuda? I cant say.
Why he has burning wall though >>.

Given though that he hits more often and has more opportunities to crit, it is worth considering the increased chances of increased spell speed he can provide that gardua cannot.

[glim]

snip

I could see ifrit doing more damage than garuda (with contagion) if all 3 physical resists apply to him (after some searching, I've also seen in a video that did say ifrit benefits from all 3 resists but im still gonna test it later)

my ifrit does 140+70 to 145+80 every 3 seconds. (on obey,more dps on sic)

while my garuda constantly does 198-210 every 3 seconds (on obey, less dps with sic)

on raw damage alone, without including contagion, ifrit wins in raw damage. (even though he doesn't scale with gear)

but if 3 debuffs does actually apply on ifrit (which I've also seen in a video) it's possible that ifrit will out dps garuda even with contagion (and btw, casting contagion costs garuda a a wind slash which cuts her off 200 something damage). and I've also heard that contagion isn't really as good as it seems, since you're basically just getting 4 free ruins.

plus that point you made about ifrit hitting twice = more crit chances.

[glim]

I would have to say that Ifrit benefits off of int, there is no other way his damage will continue to go up since my str has been static for a long time. Currently his auto attack + burning strike do the same or more damage as Garuda's Wind Blade. Often more since both his auto attack and burning stike have a chance to crit.
His enkindle does more damage than Garuda's. Has a dot effect on top of the initial hit.

Is he more dps than garuda? I cant say.
Why he has burning wall though >>.

Given though that he hits more often and has more opportunities to crit, it is worth considering the increased chances of increased spell speed he can provide that gardua cannot.

try removing all your gear except the weapon, garuda's damage will be extremely low, at around 100 each wind blade, but if you remove all your gear on ifrit the attacks only lose a couple of damage (probably because determination scales with ifrit but not int)

[Spythe]

snip

Thank you, even if I'm completely wrong now we are at least having a convo instead IFRIT IS BAD HAHAHA ANY SMN THAT USES IFRIT IS BAD I TESTED IT ON A TEST DUMMY, IFRIT IS BAD.

Yeah people overrate the fuck out of Contagion but I like it due to the fact it gives me a bit more freedom on fights that require me to move a bit more. I think it may be possible to get off longer dots if for Raging Strikes if you double cast them. Apply 3 dots fester, thunder, apply 3 dots fester, instant cast Shadow Flare. You miss out on a few Ruins during that time but that is only 600-800 dmg.

I think having a higher chance to proc Enhanced Pet Abilities is better than Contagion in terms of raw DPS numbers but once again that would have to be tested. All the people claiming Ifrit is hard to keep up since he is melee..... I don't get it, I find Garuda a bit more annoying but I rarely have a pet die in combat unless there is a dot mechanic even then a few Sustains normally keeps them up.

Can I get a link to that youtube video you watched? I just read it from comments so far.

[xxalucard]

Thank you, even if I'm completely wrong now we are at least having a convo instead IFRIT IS BAD HAHAHA ANY SMN THAT USES IFRIT IS BAD I TESTED IT ON A TEST DUMMY, IFRIT IS BAD.

Hey I welcome a conversation, though it seems like you're saying the same thing as me (ifrit is bad).

I agree contagion is good for the reasons you mentioned as well, though it's tough to double cast them with thunder & get off 2 festers while under RS. But you may be right that choosing to double cast with raging strikes is a better choice if you're able to at least double cast 3 of them.

Also just a side note: Raging strikes has no effect on shadow flare (this is not to you, just in general). It also has no effect on pet attacks.


@glim

When factoring DPS you also need to keep in mind the time it takes for Ifrit to walk to each target, his higher risk of getting damaged, and the fact that he does burning strke every 4 seconds, not 3. It's not fair to just factor in contagion losing 1 wind blade-- that seems pretty biased to only include that.

[Spythe]

Hey I welcome a conversation, though it seems like you're saying the same thing as me (ifrit is bad).

Hmmm I never said Ifrit is bad I just think the pets are party dependent. And gonna have to check the Shadow Flare Raging Strikes thing, if that is true it wouldn't be too hard to double cast dots and get 2 fester off. But then again this is perfect situation where you don't have to move at all which can be rare in a few fights.

I love the SMN class but my only real issue is horrible target swap DPS for low HP targets like rock jails on Titan, with a good group I just ignore them.

Sidebar: My whole point in all this back and forth is don't pretend you know everything and anyone that got different results or doing something different than you is wrong. Hear that person out and test it then make your own judgement. The game is not even 2 months old so stuff is bound to change especially when people get more gear and experience and DPS meters get better(I think are wrong 90% of the time but they are a decent judge). I find it hard to believe the dots are accurate when dot dmg doesn't show up in your combat log.

[glim]

When factoring DPS you also need to keep in mind the time it takes for Ifrit to walk to each target, his higher risk of getting damaged, and the fact that he does burning strke every 4 seconds, not 3. It's not fair to just factor in contagion losing 1 wind blade-- that seems pretty biased to only include that.

I'm pretty much basing my example on a closed environment, where they would be attacking at the same rate at the same time (of course hands down garuda wins because of how most mechanics work). if anything, I'm biased more towards garuda since I never ever use ifrit, I'm just making up a possible argument where ifrit could potentially do more damage than garuda egi even with contagion.

but the 4 seconds every attack is pretty much what kills it for ifrit.